T Nation

Limited Budget: Surge Pre & Post or MAG-10 & Anaconda


I do have some budget for supplements but surely not $229/month. I've currently been using Surge pre and post workout and I do like it. I started reading more and more about this Anaconda protocol and everybody seems to be raving about it even more so than the Surge. Unless my hyperlinks are messed up in IE, then it looks almost like Anaconda and MAG-10 are the same product, it's a little confusing. It's coming time for me to either buy more Surge products or MAG-10 / Anaconda and I'm not sure what to get.

My Goals
1. Primarily lifting for Strength (5x5 protocol)
2. Following Berardi's Get Shredded diet, trying to lose some fat while gaining some strength.
3. Lift 5 days a week and try to get into 15 - 20 min of cardio at least 3 - 4 of the workouts.
4. Stats: 6'0 tall male, 222lbs


buy more steaks and chicken and eat more....200 for supps fuck that


oh shit i might get kicked off the website


Who... are you?

Anaconda has MAG-10 in it, along with some other jazz. Depending on your "level" (how long you've been lifting) different guys around here would suggest different things. If your goal is 5x5, sounds like you're closer to the "novice" end of the spectrum like me - unless you have superfluous amounts of money (which seems to be your issue) go with whatever is less of a hit to your wallet for now.

The camp that will agree with me will use reasoning like "you can't fully capitalize on the Anaconda protocol because you can't yet push those limits to let it do its job of insane recovery," and I agree with them.


If you're a novice or something, go with the Surge protocol because its less expensive.
If you consider yourself intermediate or more advanced and think you workout like a madman on meth, go with the 'conda but be prepared to pay more.


I didn't realize 5x5 training program was a novice program, it's actually one of the recommended rep/set combinations recommended by Charles Poliquin.

Although I've been making some noticeable gains, I do workout 5-days of the week and by day 5 I do feel a little run down and that's one reason why I was considering the Anaconda / MAG-10 protocol. I just can't afford all the FINiBARs and stuff.

But after reading through Anaconda and MAG-10 they seem to be very similar products and the write-up didn't help me understand much. It may be good for everybody else but the ADD guy here sometimes needs a more simpler explanation. LOL

If somebody could clear up why to use both that's fine, I just want to better understand the products. Biotest has always made fine products, I miss the old Grow! bars, so I'm not debating tha; I just want to better understand what's what. Also, if I'm not doing FINiBARs and Alpha-GPC should I even bother with Anaconda and MAG-10 and just stick with Grow! Pre & Post Workout supplements?


If you don't have the budget for the Anaconda Protocol then what is your budget? Its hard for people to go into recommendations if they get shot down due to budgetary constraints they were unaware of.

I think one of your problems as to why you are worn down so much is you are trying to gain strength while following an extreme fat loss diet. You are trying to cram 5 heavy weight sessions with 3-4 light cardio sessions into a week so your body probably isn't recovery day to day.

The way you phrase "by day 5 I do feel a little run down" leads me to believe you are lifting mon-fri if you feel fine again for day 1. You might need more rest days more then you need any type of supplement right now, if you really are lifting 5 days straight you could be frying yourself out by the end of the week.


Budget: If ANACONDA and MAG-10 cost roughly $110 and it gets you through five weeks, that's not a problem. Coughing up $200+ a month would get me some serious wifey problems.

My training split usually goes 3 days of lifting 1 rest day 2 days of lifting 1 rest day.


Extremely basic breakdown of the supps as I understand them.

MAG-10 - really fast absorbing protein, best supp that you should take away from workout for pulses

ANACONDA - MAG-10 + stuff that gives you energy + helps take water & nutrients to muscles
Surge Workout Fuel - some of the same energy stuff as ANACONDA minus protein and some other stuff
Surge Recovery - fast absorbing protein + good for ya sugars for energy

I have used each (the older version of Surge Workout Fuel). If you do not have a peri-workout drink, any one will help. If you are going low cost, I would recommend Surge Recovery - started 10 minutes before the workout. I have done Surge Recovery with MAG-10 and I noticed a difference in recovery for the better.

All four products are excellent. You may not need all of them. You need to look at the protocols and think about where they are placed. What is meant for energy, what is meant for protein, etc.

Bear in mind MAG-10, Surge Workout Fuel and ANACONDA are designed to work together to build a kick ass stack. There are reasons for the overlaps.


On a budget I would just go with Surge Recovery (2scoops) pre workout and MAG-10 (2scoops) during workout.

Than have some whey post workout (1scoop)


I use 1 scoop Surge Workout, 1 scoop ANACONDA, 1 scoop MAG-10, and that really has done amazing things for me in terms of recovery and energy levels throughout my workout. Lets work through some numbers here.

This is feasible for approximately 48 workouts (the limitation of the Surge Workout Fuel, although you can use the extra MAG-10 and ANACONDA in drinks on their own to extend this out a bit)

2 tubs ANACONDA ($120)
2 tubs MAG-10 ($90)
1 tub Surge Workout ($50)

This costs $260, but if you look at Protocol 2 and add 1 MAG-10 it costs $280 and you have a Nalgene bottle and Alpha-GPC as well.

Lets say for an average month you workout 22 times, then this could last you a little over 2 months, stretching to 2 1/2 months if you use MAG-10 + ANACONDA or MAG-10 + MAG-10 to use up the rest of those bottles.

2 1/2 months or about 11 weeks, $110 per 5 weeks, $242. Pretty close really. This was something I went through when I made the plunge and the simplicity of carrying around my labware bottle for pre/peri/post makes it worth it to me.


The whole ANACONDA Protocol does sound pretty awesome. Just mix everything in a huge jug and use the flavoring system and done.

I appreciate everybody's feedback. - J


Question, can you mix Surge pre & post workout together into one drink without using the flavoring?


I assume you mean Surge Workout Fuel which I wouldn't take without the flavoring, but I suppose you could.


Im assuming you mean SWF and SR by Surge pre and post workout

SWF being the "pre workout"

and SR being the "post workout"

IF you do get both, you should most likely do like the old protocol was

Meaning : -30mins SWF
-15mins SR
During workout : Anaconda/MAG-10


I'm kind of in the same boat as the OP, as well as I think the full Protocol might be caloric overload for me right now (only weighing in around 155lbs). You're mix sounds like it could be what I'm looking for but I'm trying to gain, do you think it'll be enough calories?

I'm curious because I'm thinking of making my own using hydrolyzed protein, bcaa's, waxy maize as well as some other supplements. Wondering if this may be a better option as it's all pre-mixed.


The complete protocol might be a lot but MAG-10 and Anaconda by theirselves is not much, about 108 calories?


Berardi's diet does not call for any pre/post workout carbs. Are you following the diet or making up your own version?


That's true, the BCAA's and creatine are the only thing you really have scheduled around the training window in Berardi's diet.

I've got to agree here with Scott M, either you do it exactly as prescribed or stop calling it by name. Those who write the plan usually have a specific goal in mind, and you must follow it exactly otherwise it isn't their plan.

You can follow similar guidelines to the plan and state that, but it makes it hard for people like Berardi to clear up misconceptions down the road when people who read this post get it in their head that the pre/post carbs is alright.


48 Servings of the Surge Protocol cost $190.00

Surge Recovery x 3 = $100.00

Surge Workout Fuel x 2 = $90.00

So it workouts out to less then $100 a month, but if you're cutting it may be to many caloris; 600 vs 260 in the 1 scoop each of ANACONDA, MAG-10, Surge Workout Fuel. Depends on your goals. I did the math for myself so I thought I would post it. For my goals the Surge Protocol seems better suited, and cheaper. Depends on budget and goals though.

Should note that though it's cheaper you don't get the Nalgene bottle or Alpha-GPC.