T Nation

Lifting for Endurance Sports

Specifically Cycling and running. Also swimming.

Any links, I tried searching and didn’t come up with any direct articles.

thanks in advance :slight_smile:

Search for the “Gym To Road” article, written for triathletes. Maybe the mods can help with the link.

Cheers,

Ben

thanks :slight_smile:

weight lifting will not improve your endurance performance, if that is what you are thinking.

however it is good to strengthen your core muscles for any sport.

why do you want to weight train if your sport is cycling or running?
the only thing it might improve is your sprint(<20 seconds)

I do road cycling and racing, and I lift weights because I am very concerned with my sprint power, and to have a strong core. It is hard to train for road cycling while doing weights, but I am not looking to make gains in the weight room, now that racing season is here.

here’s an article for weights and cycling. I don’t agree with everything in it, but here it is. http://spokepost.com/news/?articleID=12&PHPSESSID=f29abe90b697d51b1309cc6eb99a9457

[quote]KiloSprinter wrote:
weight lifting will not improve your endurance performance, if that is what you are thinking.

however it is good to strengthen your core muscles for any sport.

why do you want to weight train if your sport is cycling or running?
the only thing it might improve is your sprint(<20 seconds)

I do road cycling and racing, and I lift weights because I am very concerned with my sprint power, and to have a strong core. It is hard to train for road cycling while doing weights, but I am not looking to make gains in the weight room, now that racing season is here.

here’s an article for weights and cycling. I don’t agree with everything in it, but here it is. http://spokepost.com/news/?articleID=12&PHPSESSID=f29abe90b697d51b1309cc6eb99a9457[/quote]

I am not here to answer his question but weight training is a very effective way to properly maintain body fat.

[quote]KiloSprinter wrote:
weight lifting will not improve your endurance performance, if that is what you are thinking.

however it is good to strengthen your core muscles for any sport.

why do you want to weight train if your sport is cycling or running?
the only thing it might improve is your sprint(<20 seconds)

I do road cycling and racing, and I lift weights because I am very concerned with my sprint power, and to have a strong core. It is hard to train for road cycling while doing weights, but I am not looking to make gains in the weight room, now that racing season is here.

here’s an article for weights and cycling. I don’t agree with everything in it, but here it is. http://spokepost.com/news/?articleID=12&PHPSESSID=f29abe90b697d51b1309cc6eb99a9457[/quote]

Thanks for the link. I want to weight train to prevent injuries, to increase my maxium power. (you have to sprint to win)

I don’t go all or nothing, obviously if i want to do well in cycling i have to cycle. No need to mention that. Same with running obviously.

I just want to balance out imbalances, make my tendons, ligaments and muscles a little more durable, and get rid of some nagging injury things.

Not looking to get huge either, Type “alan webb” into google image searcher. That’s my goal :wink:

I should add, my goal is his functional strength. Not neccesarily how good he looks because he is strong. Although Looking good isnt bad either :wink:

You have already hinted to this, but since every race has an end, the faster you reach that end the better. I think Joe DeFranco said it best (paraphrased), “You can’t be weak and fast, you have to be strong to be fast.”

On that note, train for maximal strength, train for power, and train for technique.

Stick to the basics, which is what most everyone will say. Push, pull, squat. Sometimes heavy, sometimes fast.

Lance Armstrong lifts in the off-season, his trainer said that one reason was to build muscle mass, which was necessary due to the catabolic affect of cycling.

They said that he used a leg-press, but the only reason he didn’t squat was the higher risk of injury with squatting.

[quote]KiloSprinter wrote:
weight lifting will not improve your endurance performance, if that is what you are thinking.

however it is good to strengthen your core muscles for any sport.

why do you want to weight train if your sport is cycling or running?
the only thing it might improve is your sprint(<20 seconds)

I do road cycling and racing, and I lift weights because I am very concerned with my sprint power, and to have a strong core. It is hard to train for road cycling while doing weights, but I am not looking to make gains in the weight room, now that racing season is here.

here’s an article for weights and cycling. I don’t agree with everything in it, but here it is. http://spokepost.com/news/?articleID=12&PHPSESSID=f29abe90b697d51b1309cc6eb99a9457[/quote]

Not sure if I totally agree with you here. In one of Dan John’s articles on his website he tells the story of a middle distance runner at his college who lifted heavy weights and was quite big compared to the other runners, who were the typical “stick figure” body type. This guy was apparently awesome at running everyone down in a race, so much so that suddenly all the other runners started lifting in the gym! I think the guy made the Olympics as well.

I also ride a road bike for fitness, nothing on the scale that you do, but one thing I have noticed since getting back into weight training in the middle of last year is that on certain hills that I regularly ride up, I was suddenly able to climb them in a much harder gear and go up the hill faster. I wasn’t actually riding too much at that stage, so increased endurance/better riding technique wasn;t the answer, I could only attribute it to the weights.

Just my $0.02 worth

Ben

Train for Strength and power…by doing your sports training (ex: riding your bike) you are developing the energy system you need and building endurance. No need to train for that as well in the weight room. Focus on the areas that are often neglegted when doing a high volume of cyclic type of sports. For example most cyclists are very quad dominant and have shortened hip flexors, etc, just from their riding position and repetive nature of the sport. In the weight room they would try to focus on the posterior chain and upper back to help counter all the work they are doing on the bike in order to prevent injuries. However, volume must be monitored so that overtraining doesn’t occur (ex: if your doing a ton of riding you don’t want to kill youself in the gym with long brutal workouts)and to monitor body mass if you must stay at a certain weight for you sport.

Lance armstrongs trainer has a name!

Chris Charmicheal :slight_smile: (now i probably misspelled his last name lol)

anyway I have read the same thing, about him training in the offseason. and after reading a thing about post recovery protien/carbs, it makes sense. Since aerobic activity is much more catabolic than anythign else. Even if you do the proper recovery.

anyway, you guys are awesome, this board is better than the cycling forum I go to :smiley:

Im a T-Nation guy now lol.

[quote]Jagrazor wrote:
Lance armstrongs trainer has a name!

Chris Charmicheal :slight_smile: (now i probably misspelled his last name lol)

anyway I have read the same thing, about him training in the offseason. and after reading a thing about post recovery protien/carbs, it makes sense. Since aerobic activity is much more catabolic than anythign else. Even if you do the proper recovery.

anyway, you guys are awesome, this board is better than the cycling forum I go to :smiley:

Im a T-Nation guy now lol.[/quote]

Jag,
I am a collegiate triathlete. As an athletic training major I have access to professors that most people pay for. In fact, I am meeting with a exercise physiologist that studied in the strength and conditioning areas.

[quote]
Jag,
I am a collegiate triathlete. As an athletic training major I have access to professors that most people pay for. In fact, I am meeting with a exercise physiologist that studied in the strength and conditioning areas. [/quote]

Well, hello buddy :slight_smile:

Im an excersize science major, but first year only, so i don’t have any special access yet.

btw do they have a collegiate level triathlon league or something like they have for cycling? There is a cycling club at my school, but i have never heard of college triathloning…

I am on a lot of cycling forums myself, under the names chainsnapper or velomanct.

I wish my school had a cycling team, but it’s a community college anyways.

Also, just because Lance Armstrong does something, doesn’t make it the right thing to do. This same discussion is on many cycling forums, lol.

As I said, I do weights to further improve my sprint on the bike. BUT, you will see much quicker gains in sprinting ability if you simply train for them on the bike. I have done that and seemed to reach a plateau, so that is the reason I do weights.

It sure is difficult to do much weights while training a lot on the bike. I wouldn’t recomend that someone continue to do weight during racing season, unless they are a track sprinter or possibly a roadie who is highly specialized in sprinting (myself). The exception is that it is always a good idea to do some core muscle work year round.

Also, you would be surprised how much the hamstrings and lower back are used during cycling. I did stiff leg straight back deadlifts the other day, and I really feel it(sore) when riding.

alan webb is a lot smaller now than he was in highschool.

I know, i was refering to his current size, not his high school size.

Check out what Hicham El Guerruge does he is a world class mid-long distance runner and holds a couple world records. He does incorporate lifting into his training schedule I beleive he does something like 4x25 for most core lifts.

Just try and search it on any search engine it shouldnt be too hard to find.

Yeah i used to regularly go to kingofthemile.com and read up his training.

He did really really light (like only the bar) quarter and half squats and after doing that then he woudl do full squats.

like 4x25 quarter 4x30 half and then 4x20 full squats

at like 25kg and 30kg depending on the excersize. Then he would do like 4x12 or 16 (cant remember) on different machines/apparatuses (as they put it)

He did like 500 sit ups and 400 back extensions.

And based on how well he does you would think thats the way to go. But most people here would definately disagree.

[quote]Jagrazor wrote:

Jag,
I am a collegiate triathlete. As an athletic training major I have access to professors that most people pay for. In fact, I am meeting with a exercise physiologist that studied in the strength and conditioning areas.

Well, hello buddy :slight_smile:

Im an excersize science major, but first year only, so i don’t have any special access yet.

btw do they have a collegiate level triathlon league or something like they have for cycling? There is a cycling club at my school, but i have never heard of college triathloning…
[/quote]

There are collegiate triathlon teams and cycling teams. All club level though . Unfortunately the NCAA is stuck on traditional sports for Varsity recognition. We have both a cycling team and a triathlon team. There is actually a collegiate championship in triathlon held each year.

I sat down with 2 Ph.Ds. One specializing in Strength and Conditioning and one in Endurance Performance and Nutrition. We came up with a plan that might sound out of whack… The two professors are actually looking for a grant to research this proposal (but that is many years away as grants take forever). The concept being to maximize strength while minimizing hypertrophy (weight gain). The idea would be to attack the neuromuscular adaptation aspect of strength gains. The plan is to work out endurance and typical training regimen for the entire year and only do hard strength training 2 months before a peak race.

For our triathlon team we have peak races in May/April and August/September. The space would allow us to peak twice. One of my races is September 25th so I will be training normally until January 25th at which point I will start basic hard strength training through compound lifts. I will be getting VO2 Gas Analysis every month among many other diagnostic tests to see if the new approach is working. Usually the first 8 weeks of beginning strength training is neuromuscular adaptation. Arguably this means there is minimal tissue hypertrophy thus you still maintain the vascular/aerobic output to the tissues while enhancing their stimulation and thus strength. The result? No effect on aerobic capacity and an increase in overall strength. Because this experiement is still months away we will be sitting down every Friday and discussing new thoughts.

Again, feel free to PM me if you have anything you want me to address with them.

There also is likely much theory against this new approach… feel free to propose those ideas as well and I will bring them up.

So far they have eliminated any benefit to the typical off season strength training load followed by pure endurance training and they have eliminated any benefit to combined endurance and strength training.