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Lifting and Training...


#1

So summer is here for me, and I'm wanting to lift and train mui thai. I can only train mui thai two or three days a week, but I can lift every day. I just recently read the acticle on building explosive power and strength, and just now staying power. I was thinking of doing a regular isolation split and adding this to the major movements.

Example:
Benchpress 5x5 superset push-ups 3x10 (would bench two sets w/ no push-ups, and last three sets with push-up's in between.)

But the staying power article just posted in responce to another person asking the same thing got me thinking about that. So my question is, which is more effective? Also if I use the staying power philosophy (1-4 reps 10-15 sets little rest) is there any use in supersetting body weight exercises like I was planning on?

What do you guys think? I'm trying to gain some strength, power, and a little extra lean mass. Thoughts?


#2

I don’t go to the gym trying to do 30 pushups, i go in there trying to lift 400 fucking lbs.

i’d skip the bw exercises and focus on increasing the weight in your main lifts. stay around 6-10 reps. what does your ‘regular isolation split’ look like?

don’t forget nutrition, especially post workout. slam those protein shakes. especially considering you’re body will need recovery from both weight training and muay thai.

good luck man! summer’s always a good time to put on some quality size


#3

A regular routine which is not very compatible with explosive contrast training.

You can you contrasting weights as a plateau breaker for heavy weights, but explosivity is trained in most cases with not even 50% RM because of joint health, technique etc.

How important is muay thai for you?
If you consider yourself primarily a fighter train accordingly. If you want to bulk a bit, nothing wrong with that. It can be great to abstain from fighting for a few months and just hit the weights + a little conditioning.

Also: If you are a total weights beginner (BP: 100lbs, Squa/Deads: <200lbs), knock yourself out. As long as you eat and rest, you’re free to try things out.


#4

I’ve been lifting for about four years steady now, so I’m not too new. I just want to help out my mui thai by adding more speed, strength, and I wouldn’t mind a little size. I basically only have barbells and dumbbells to work with, all the plates in the world, squat rack, pull-up bar ect… I’m just trying to put together a program that keeps in mind my mui thai training, and won’t hinder it (and will hopefully help it). I’ve read a bunch of articles about explosive training, and what-not and I’m trying to find something that will work for me. I’m used to the old Body Building splits. Mon- Chest/ Tue-Back/ Wed- Shoulders ect… I want to keep on my size and gain strength and explosive force. Suggestions?


#5

are you seeing gains with your current workout/nutrition?


#6

Slight, gains. Strength seems to have leveled off, which sucks. Macaroni you train BJJ right? What kind of workouts do you do? More of a power lifting thing or what?


#7

Ignore that we are on a lifting site, as you are going to get a ton of different replies
from people with different agendas- some of it is going to be good, and some of it wont apply to you
and that’s fine every one has different goals.

I will quote myself from another post… except I corrected the spelling

there are a thousand ways to skin this apple.

Its not about how strong you are in the gym,
its about generating power, over an extended period of time.
how to generate power
how to get the work capacity high
and really how to do it with out impairing your skill work.

and the skill work is the key component

Now if that sounds familiar - its cause we all got it from the same place-
I got it from the OTC in colorado in the early 90s when I was there.

they got it from eastern block strength coaches in the
70’s and 80’s and 90’s so did Jon Chaimberg Joel Jamison etc.

really weight room strength means dick on the matt or in the ring.
But you can improve your fighting strength in the weight room…

Think about where you are weak-
do you want big numbers in the box squat, dead lift and bench?

do you want to look good at the beach?
do you want to be strong in the ring?

figure out what your priorities are, and spell them out a little clearer.

As far as body weight parings - get the pairing correct

are they to restore or rectify weakness?
like front or back squats followed by pistols?

Or is it bench to clap or plyo pushups
to work closed chain vs open chain?

spell it out a little clearer- prioritize what you think you want to work on.

raw strength , power, or getting your work capacity higher

kmc


#8

kmc, my first thought is to say, “I want all of it!” Mostly though power and work capacity. I’m fairly fast, pretty agile, but I get winded quick. I can usually come back strong, but it takes too long. Also I always want to be more powerful. I’ve got a decent right, but I don’t know that it’d ko anyone. Bench to be followed by clap pushups. Closed or open chain? I don’t know what that means.


#9

every one wants it all mate :0)
but you got to prioritize

Open vs closed chain is about the kinetic chain google it up yo.

bench where you are pushing restricted against a bench would be closed
pushups the body is moveing freely so that would be open chain…

few times in a fight are you moving in a closed kinetic chain
maybe in gaurd… but its just food for thought.

If you are picking pairings make sure they compliment each other.

like pull up ball slam , squats to jumps etc.

kmc


#10

I always look at athletic qualities and think what I want to focus on… be it flexibility, power, strength… they can all be developed, and you can always reach a plateau in them too unfortunately.

There’s a video up somewhere with Andy Hug deadlifting like 600 pounds+. I’m sure all that lower body strength and power translated very well to his style whereas someone like Aerts probably doesn’t hit the weights that hard. Sometimes how strong you are in the gym can transfer very well to the ring, sometimes it doesn’t. Depends on the sport, your style, your other athletic attributes and a lot of factors. Experiment, see what works best for you… I think that is the most important thing at the end of the day.


#11

Nikos that is a good point… I thought I tried to say that :slight_smile:

that the weights you push done matter in number but you can get stronger for the matt or ring in the weight room
but you are right picking attributes that you need to work on is the best start.

kmc


#12

[quote]Beershoes wrote:
Slight, gains. Strength seems to have leveled off, which sucks. Macaroni you train BJJ right? What kind of workouts do you do? More of a power lifting thing or what?[/quote]

gah not really. i’d say i’ve got more of a traditional bodybuilding split. yeah i do bjj and keysi.

i don’t particularly agree with that statement of the numbers in the gym not meaning anything. i remember trying to push down on people’s heads/necks when they were going in for takedowns. now a year later of doing weighted dips with an extra 135lbs for 10, you can bet it’s a hell of a lot easier sliding them off.

conditioning is really what it’s all about in the end. a fighter with excellent technique who drills all the time will start to fail if his conditioning goes out. the same with someone who is extrmely strong, once their conditioning fails their strength goes out the window.

so as long as your working on achieving/maintaining a decent amount of endurance/conditioning, i’d say you should be free to pursue the more asthetic aspect of weightlifting. i mean hell, if you can fight AND look good naked, what’s not to like in that?


#13

[quote]HolyMacaroni wrote:
Beershoes wrote:
Slight, gains. Strength seems to have leveled off, which sucks. Macaroni you train BJJ right? What kind of workouts do you do? More of a power lifting thing or what?

gah not really. i’d say i’ve got more of a traditional bodybuilding split. yeah i do bjj and keysi.

i don’t particularly agree with that statement of the numbers in the gym not meaning anything. i remember trying to push down on people’s heads/necks when they were going in for takedowns. now a year later of doing weighted dips with an extra 135lbs for 10, you can bet it’s a hell of a lot easier sliding them off.

conditioning is really what it’s all about in the end. a fighter with excellent technique who drills all the time will start to fail if his conditioning goes out. the same with someone who is extrmely strong, once their conditioning fails their strength goes out the window.

so as long as your working on achieving/maintaining a decent amount of endurance/conditioning, i’d say you should be free to pursue the more asthetic aspect of weightlifting. i mean hell, if you can fight AND look good naked, what’s not to like in that?[/quote]

you wouldn’t agree with it cause your a big strong dude who happens to roll and spar a little. :slight_smile:
but that’s cool every one is different. its cool and I bet we could learn about getting bigger or stronger more readily from someone like you.

when your rolling or what ever with beginners its easy to out muscle people move on to more serious partners and competing with people with Years of ability- strength is less of a factor

Its about getting strong where it counts- and how to apply that strength.
and how to apply it the entire match.

strong where it counts- Im not suggesting training with db’s to mock strikes or bullshit like that

Im just speaking from my experience playing judo and wrestling - with the big kids-post college.
It never mattered what people I played against lifted, I was stronger where it counts.

write your name after a heavy set of deads…
try it after rolling hard for say 9 minutes.
not so easy, .

now you might be an anomoly Mac- your a big dude that also seems to do a shit ton of running
at school…

that being said weights have a purpose- in your training
you wanted to get bigger stronger, just make that a priority as long as
your recovery isnt too impaired for the muaythai…

kmc


#14

[quote]kmcnyc wrote:

you wouldn’t agree with it cause your a big strong dude who happens to roll and spar a little. :slight_smile:
but that’s cool every one is different. its cool and I bet we could learn about getting bigger or stronger more readily from someone like you.

when your rolling or what ever with beginners its easy to out muscle people move on to more serious partners and competing with people with Years of ability- strength is less of a factor

Its about getting strong where it counts- and how to apply that strength.
and how to apply it the entire match.

strong where it counts- Im not suggesting training with db’s to mock strikes or bullshit like that

Im just speaking from my experience playing judo and wrestling - with the big kids-post college.
It never mattered what people I played against lifted, I was stronger where it counts.

write your name after a heavy set of deads…
try it after rolling hard for say 9 minutes.
not so easy, .

now you might be an anomoly Mac- your a big dude that also seems to do a shit ton of running
at school…

that being said weights have a purpose- in your training
you wanted to get bigger stronger, just make that a priority as long as
your recovery isnt too impaired for the muaythai…

kmc
[/quote]

bah, i only meant that beershoes is fairly young (i think?), and i don’t see any negative as to why he can’t focus his time in the gym this summer to get big and strong AS WELL as continue to improve his his muay thai.

agree that the people who roll with you in the ring/mat rarely give a shit what you lift.

still feel that superior conditioning will trump perfect technique or great strength almost every time.

although i’m going to have to disagree with the deadlift/rolling. rolling for 9 straight min? i’d be puking all over the place, if i even made it that far.

however i’ve been known to go sit in the corner and cry about it for a few min after completing a deadlift or squat workout. it’s just different ways of getting there.

lol @ ‘training with db’s to mimic strikes’

edit** in anycase, OP’s last line was that he wants to gain ‘strength,power and a little extra mass.’

if that’s the case, i’d just suggest doing what works (standard bodybuilder-type split) and make sure you party hard in the kitchen to help recovery from the weights and muay thai


#15

Fair enough…

your a good sport Mac.
And you are right beer shoes is young , and young in training- so basics go a long long way.
I agree and have always said and felt conditioning is always what you need to roll/fight etc.

Good point about sitting in a corner and crying, when the weights get big enough I am feeble after Max effort work - tweety birds during the set and laying down after.

But seriously- grip gives out when rolling and its one way to test conditioning
are your hands shaking after your practice or during.

I am forgetting that the OP did say bigger-

kmc


#16

Is 22 young? So a BB type split with some open chain explosive super sets? That sound decent?


#17

22 is young Im 37. :slight_smile:

sure some hypertrophy and strength work

throw in some cleans or some such ball slams stuff you like

think of something like wsfsb or close to it. But Im still a skinny bastard at 180 and 5’6"
maybe some of the big hosses can chime in.

kmc


#18

personally i think the whole ‘kenetic chain’ shananaigns just sounds like another exotic thing to waste your time.

i’d stick to a standard bb type spilt. other things like medicine ball slams and that could be done AFTER your weight training session.

but yeah man, like i said, whatever you do end up doing, make sure to slam the food back.

i mean, i’m 22. not sure how old kmc is. i’d say it’s safe to still call us ‘young’

lol.


#19

Im old and creaky at 37… and stuff like kinetic chain malarky suddenly is important when you start to loose mobility. suddenly scap push ups and weak ass bullshit is kicking your ass.

without dipping into the old fart lecture- when I was 22 I was on a bus going to work
that is going to matches to wrestle , and drink a bunch of guiness. :slight_smile:

now old and slow suddenly stuff that I ignored- like the kinetic chain marlarky is important
suddenly glutes dont fire and your hips and shoulders suck ass.

the deal with open kinetic chain is more like dont forget to do x or y or z not
this is the best way to get strong.

I think beershoes wants to “train like a fighter” but also get his swole on.

Mac is saying get some solid lifting, and some solid eating in.

Im sayind sort of the same thing- in a different way…

forget kinetic chain- stick to the big money lifts squat, dead row pulls up, dip adding weights and bench.

throw in some cleans, or complexes and your good to go.

ps if you want to see how an old fart trains - I keep a log in over 35.

kmc


#20

[quote]kmcnyc wrote:

Im old and creaky at 37… and stuff like kinetic chain malarky suddenly is important when you start to loose mobility. suddenly scap push ups and weak ass bullshit is kicking your ass.

without dipping into the old fart lecture- when I was 22 I was on a bus going to work
that is going to matches to wrestle , and drink a bunch of guiness. :slight_smile:

now old and slow suddenly stuff that I ignored- like the kinetic chain marlarky is important
suddenly glutes dont fire and your hips and shoulders suck ass.

the deal with open kinetic chain is more like dont forget to do x or y or z not
this is the best way to get strong.

I think beershoes wants to “train like a fighter” but also get his swole on.

Mac is saying get some solid lifting, and some solid eating in.

Im sayind sort of the same thing- in a different way…

forget kinetic chain- stick to the big money lifts squat, dead row pulls up, dip adding weights and bench.

throw in some cleans, or complexes and your good to go.

ps if you want to see how an old fart trains - I keep a log in over 35.

kmc

[/quote]

i gotcha. agree with what you’re saying. you can bet i’ll be doing all those ‘shanangins’ when i’m 37, i know i can’t lift in the manner i do the rest of my life.

how about this, how would you of trained at 22 if you wanted to get big and strong over the summer while doing MA?

will definatly check out that log.