T Nation

Lift to Failure?

Lately I’ve been doing 4 sets of 10 following the routine given to me by my wrestling coach. However, I’m having some doubts.

For example, should I go heavy and lift to failure? Any wrestlers/ex-wrestlers have suggestions?

Also, I benched 2 sets at 135 (light) next set at 145, last set at 165 for 4 reps (failure). Afterwards my outer pecs (closer to shoulders) were sore. This never happens to me.
5’7", 160 lbs
Max bench: 2x215

Going to absolute failure is a prescription for injury. Can you wrestle if you are injured? Your training should be geared to what your goals are. Do you want to be stronger but remain in the same weight class? Do you want to be stronger and bigger and move up in weight class?

don’t you read the cool tips? Waterbury’s top mistakes he sees people make are training to failure and not training often enough.

[quote]Avoids Roids wrote:
Going to absolute failure is a prescription for injury. Can you wrestle if you are injured? Your training should be geared to what your goals are. Do you want to be stronger but remain in the same weight class? Do you want to be stronger and bigger and move up in weight class?[/quote]

I’m already at the weight I want to maintain, and am aiming for simply strength at this point.

A.R. is wright. Always leave a few in the tank if your playing sports. You cant “shine” and present your talent if your benched because of a injurie. Save the crazy stuff for the off-season if you do plan on more radical or rigid methods.

I agree that during season it is smart not to hit failure but me, I am a beleiver in beginers going to failure more often this due to them not knowing what failure is.

They actually mentally fail its not real physical/musculature failure. By going to failure they learn to reach in the tank more to get that extra rep etc. But yes you have to be careful injury can happen but hey you can get injured taking a dump as well.

Phill

[quote]Phill wrote:
I agree that during season it is smart not to hit failure but me, I am a beleiver in beginers going to failure more often this due to them not knowing what failure is.

They actually mentally fail its not real physical/musculature failure. By going to failure they learn to reach in the tank more to get that extra rep etc. But yes you have to be careful injury can happen but hey you can get injured taking a dump as well.

Phill[/quote]

Ditto

Agreed

Most people don’t know physical failure. It isn’t when the weight can’t get off of your chest. If you don’t know and have an understanding of failure, then how can you maximize your workouts. And, like Phil, I think it’s especially important to the beginners.

[quote]sasquatch wrote:

Ditto

Agreed

Most people don’t know physical failure. It isn’t when the weight can’t get off of your chest. If you don’t know and have an understanding of failure, then how can you maximize your workouts. And, like Phil, I think it’s especially important to the beginners.
[/quote]

I think as a wrestler I know about failure, and when I push and it hurts and the bar doesn’t move, that sounds like physical failure to me.

[quote]supfrochild wrote:
sasquatch wrote:

Ditto

Agreed

Most people don’t know physical failure. It isn’t when the weight can’t get off of your chest. If you don’t know and have an understanding of failure, then how can you maximize your workouts. And, like Phil, I think it’s especially important to the beginners.

I think as a wrestler I know about failure, and when I push and it hurts and the bar doesn’t move, that sounds like physical failure to me.[/quote]

As an all-state wrestler in my past, I couldn’t disagree more. But, you did prove my statement above…you are among those that don’t understand failure. How failure can be an effective training tool. Pain is quite different. And I suppose I will have to explain the difference between good pain and bad pain.

[quote]sasquatch wrote:

As an all-state wrestler in my past, I couldn’t disagree more. But, you did prove my statement above…you are among those that don’t understand failure. How failure can be an effective training tool. Pain is quite different. And I suppose I will have to explain the difference between good pain and bad pain.[/quote]

Haha please do.

[quote]supfrochild wrote:
Lately I’ve been doing 4 sets of 10 following the routine given to me by my wrestling coach. However, I’m having some doubts.

For example, should I go heavy and lift to failure? Any wrestlers/ex-wrestlers have suggestions?

Also, I benched 2 sets at 135 (light) next set at 145, last set at 165 for 4 reps (failure). Afterwards my outer pecs (closer to shoulders) were sore. This never happens to me.
5’7", 160 lbs
Max bench: 2x215
[/quote]

This is the typical newb nonsense that has taken over this site. You don’t understand failure or pain. You claim to be able to bench 215x2 yet you claim you were at complete muscular failure after 4 reps at 165.

3 or 4 sets of 10 is a fine beginning program. You are a beginner. You’ve been lifting a half-year and have doubts about your program, yet you can’t even follow it.

Wrestling is about endurance and leverage. Strength is nice, but not that important.

Now shut your mouth and go run some stairs. Then do 100 sit outs before working on your takedowns. Listen to your coach and do your program. 2 years from now you may speak again.

A lot of people mention newbies not understanding what failure is, but not one person takes the time to explain it?

[quote]shamethedebil wrote:
A lot of people mention newbies not understanding what failure is, but not one person takes the time to explain it?[/quote]

That’s not my job–especially when the information is so readily available on this site. Search. It is explained and researched at a level that makes it very easy to understand and comprehend should the person choose to read.

By the way–I see no question there.

Decending sets use to work for me:

Ie; X weight to failure, followed by changing to a 5-10lb loss in weight to failure followed by another 5-10lb dropp off to failure. All done in a fast manner no breaks in between sets, its a good tool to use if you have a training partner. Its not something you would do all the time either.

[quote]sasquatch wrote:
shamethedebil wrote:
A lot of people mention newbies not understanding what failure is, but not one person takes the time to explain it?

That’s not my job–especially when the information is so readily available on this site. Search. It is explained and researched at a level that makes it very easy to understand and comprehend should the person choose to read.

By the way–I see no question there.[/quote]

No, it’s not your job. But this is supposed to be a forum where people that are new to the game can ask questions and get advice from those that have been around the block, right?

A lot of us do read the articles and we do learn a lot from them, but that makes it not ok to ask questions?

From a newbies standpoint, it can get pretty frustrating when you post a question knowing you have to weed through about 6 or 7 posts of people calling you an idiot, just to get a decent reply. Don’t you remember what it was like when you were first starting out?

[quote]shamethedebil wrote:
sasquatch wrote:
shamethedebil wrote:
A lot of people mention newbies not understanding what failure is, but not one person takes the time to explain it?

That’s not my job–especially when the information is so readily available on this site. Search. It is explained and researched at a level that makes it very easy to understand and comprehend should the person choose to read.

By the way–I see no question there.

No, it’s not your job. But this is supposed to be a forum where people that are new to the game can ask questions and get advice from those that have been around the block, right?

A lot of us do read the articles and we do learn a lot from them, but that makes it not ok to ask questions?

From a newbies standpoint, it can get pretty frustrating when you post a question knowing you have to weed through about 6 or 7 posts of people calling you an idiot, just to get a decent reply. Don’t you remember what it was like when you were first starting out?
[/quote]

Listen dweeb

This poster claims to know failure. He has said so several times, so your argument is bogus. The problem here is his, and apparently yours, inability to grasp the concepts as written or explained by others. If you can’t read an article on failure and grasp the concept then my post won’t make much difference. Just like the way it has been accepted here.

I enjoy helping the beginners. Go back and read my posts. Yes, I can be harsh and sarcastic, but my first attempt in the beginners section is usually to help. Any sibsequent responses generally follow the tone of the respondee.

Another thing you may want to remeber is that many of us ‘experienced’ people take the time to reply and then get bitch slapped because it didn’t fit the beginners idea of what he believed. We didn’t tell him what he wanted to hear.
This guy claims to know muscular failure with 4 reps at aprox. 65% of his supposed max. This after 2 easy sets of 10 and one more 10 lbs heavier.

Yah, I remember what it was like to be new to the game. It was the 70’s and early 80’s when I got my intro to the weight room. Believe me now, this attitude would have been bounced right out of the room.

[quote]sasquatch wrote:

Listen dweeb
[/quote]

Kinda reinforces the opinion I’m getting of you. It says a lot when a person has to resort to name calling.

Look Bro, I know the attitude you’re talking about. Try answering questions on the fight boards some day and you’ll get a whole new idea of people
s preconceptions.

I think I have a pretty good idea of what failure means from the conditioning I’ve gone through. I’d like to know if it means the same thing in the weight game, but you sure wont catch me asking with the attitudes thrown around here.

Defining it thats what Im getting at in my post atleast is well to define it REAL failure it take time and actually reaching it. There is a difference between failure and the mental state that casuses those new to training to fail IMO.

This is built and adapted to over time under the bar and yes going to failure from timwe to time not aiming to failo MOST time not failure as a goal. Lift to succeed KNow you will hit the load you attempt get the mental drive to DO the damn thing the toughness to mentally not just physically push through something your mind says it shouldnt be able to to get that extra rep.

This is once again built. Its both becoming neurally effecint andf mentally strong. It is amazing what the body can do when the mind truely beleives it can. But IMO you wont know failure real failure until you have reached REAL failure. and then its not failure really I think it just another step something you have to build to to overcome both mentally and physically if you are storng enough and driven.

Train smart train hard, be confident and driven aim to win not fail and learn to beleive that but dont be scared to fail use it get mad at it get smart and beat it.

clear as Mud Huh it takes time and training, and I think never ends.

Phill

To clearify in a few simple words someone with an older training age knows hoiw to mentally push them selves better. To turn it on they know real failure and are much more mentally tough and are able to mentally make the body push bounds a newbie cant. Newbies are mentally werak their preceived failure is much lower the mind telling them this is to hard. You have to beat that back and become mentally tough and that is reached through pushing the envelope your bounds and yes failing from time to time.

You didnt happen to get a friendly spot on that 215 for 2 did you? If not
then maybe take a longer break between setts and cut out a few sets of 10 and add some sets of 205