T Nation

Libido Up, Then Down (Labs Back)


#1

I've been reading over the T replacement forum and can't seem to find an answer to this, so here it goes.

The first week of 125mg TE, libido shot through the roof. Then, it - enjoyably - seemed to stay that way through the end of the second week. However, when I got my third shot, I expected it to be the same, but it crashed and I am currently pre-TRT libido. Is there something wrong? The shots have been rotating from delt to delt and it was unusually more bloody the 3rd shot if that matters. Should I supplement with methyltestosterone?

Thanks


#2

Need more info. Do you have labs? If I had to guess...your E2 shot up which will kill libido. Are you taking an AI?


#3

I figured it may be E2. My left nipple hurts when it's pressed, but I don't feel a lump. I asked if that was the beginning stages of gyno before without avail. Should I supplement with a SERM (Nolvadex) and then test E2 to see if I need an AI or not to even touch it?


#4

If I were you I'd go out today and have labs done.
TT
FT
E2
SHBG

Then you'll know for sure what to do. Very few can take 125mg of T/week without an AI


#5

I can't get the results for TT/FT for one week, but E2 may be done the same day. Would E2 alone give me a better idea of what's going on and whether I should ask for an AI?


#6

Yes. But FT and TT can also help with this. Let's say your T numbers are well above range and your E2 is high. Well then the plan would be to reduce T and add an AI. If you just get E2 levels and add an AI based on that and later find your T levels need adjusting, it will require more time to get things right. JMHO


#7

Solid point. What about the pain in my nipple though? Should I take a SERM in the meantime or am I just being paranoid about it?

I'll go in to get tested tomorrow (10PM now) and get what labs I can tomorrow for everyone.

Edit: What do you mean by T being too high? My labs' range is 131-837 and I see some men fall well above 837. What is a number that I should reach? I can't find anything about what a good number is. Is it just when I feel my best? Because that was last week, for sure. I definitely don't want my doc to see 131 and say I'm good. (@Nashtide)
Thanks


#8

I'm not sure there's a right or wrong answer. Having levels of T well above normal can lead to problems with blood thickening which is serious. Also if you have well above range levels at some point it's no longer TRT and is more like a continuos steroid cycle. I aim for my T being in the very top of normal range. You will not need T levels above range to feel good. Again this is just my opinion. YMMV


#9

For some initial T increase can be very overwhelming and dies down. You'll see consistent results after 6-8 weeks dependant on your dosage and use of ancillaries.

This is not sure shot to happen, I'm 7 weeks and never got an initial increase in libido Nor have I had that till now.


#10

Would my labs' normal range be sufficient enough (131-837)? I see some men that post numbers between 900 and 1200, which would be far above range. I'm shooting to just feel in my younger 20s again, where I suspect my T started to drop drastically after puberty, and that was a day after my second shot.

Would you recommend adding a shorter ester like prop to stretch out the effects of E? I see there is a blend of P/C/E (and maybe U) in Sus. I could try to do that with a shot of E and P. I don't know if anyone has experience with a blend such as that though (ie 125mg E and 25-50mg P).

@equalo212, so you're saying that I could have just been a special case where my libido (clearer head and better mood) may have just been a one time fluke after the first two shots and it'll take more time to dial it in?


#11

ksman and some leading doctors say that the initial surge in libido and the euphoria experienced is due to the dopamine rush and fades away. Does not mean your TRT isn't working, it's just that it works as well as a normal person works with high normal T levels.

Apart from that 1-2 weeks is not a timeframe where changes happen in terms of biochemistry. T levels build up in the body and that takes time.


#12

Again hard to say. I think the guys with 1000 TT are still in range for their labs.


#13

I think ranges mean little. 1000 Ng/dl is 1000 Ng/dl , no matter your lab ranges. That's why these numbers don't change when I do labs from other lab which has different range. And we also use the absolute number when calculating free T, which brings me the point of keeping ft in ranges rather than worrying about TT. TT can be high or low depending on SHBG.


#14

Good points. I guess I was just suggesting that a there are consequences to keeping T at super human levels. And it's not necessary to feel better. I want my T as high as possible without running a continuos steroid cycle...


#15

Libido has been up since first posting, here are updated labs:
E2: 44.4 pg/ml
Progesterone: 1.38 ng/ml
Prolactin: 25.5

Is my body just adjusting to the addition of testosterone to have caused this one week fluke?

And I know @KSman and others have said the magic number for E2 should be 22. Seeing my results in comparison to some others on a 125mg/wk test e TRT, is 44 something to worry about? Is the nipple sensitivity in my head? I've always had slight gyno since being a teen, so nothing abnormal happening there. If it is, and the doctor is comfortable prescribing adex after my LDL lowers (as it's not FDA approved for this treatment unlike Nolva), would 0.25mg/E3D be a sufficient dose to start at?

TIA


#16

Your prolactin is elevated assuming that you are using a standard range since ranges were not provided. Are you on anti depressants?


#17

No, but I did come off of a cycle of halodrol which may have tweaked other numbers. I omitted that information as I didn't see that it was relevant in a TRT discussion.

The labs posted no range on this sheet that they gave me, but it is elevated from my last.


#18

Anybody care to help dose an AI for 44.4 pg/ml E2? This was taken on the 8th day after an injection of 125mg test e.


#19

If the AI is Adex, then I would take 0.5mg every 3.5 days and retest in 4 weeks.


#20

Baka, you need to read these stickies. Then you will know what to do and will not need to ask from ground zero.

Stickies found here: https://forums.t-nation.com/t/about-the-t-replacement-category/38/2?u=ksman
* advice for new guys
* things that damage your hormones
* protocol for injection
* finding a TRT doc