T Nation

Libido: Free T or T:E Ratio?


#1

This is a post just for my general knowledge and how the various hormones play within the body and generate libido.

I am still learning how complex all this is and have appreciated all the feedback and stickies in this forum.

One question that keeps popping into my head - is libido determined by the amount of free T in the body, or is it more correlated to the differential between T and E levels? For example - if a guy has middle of the road T levels, but he has an in range, albeit low E level, I would assume his libido would be much healthier than a guy with top or above range free T and a corresponding high to too high Estrogen level. Am i on track here?

And if I am, is this the reasoning behind why guys on TRT want to push up free T levels but generally, try and keep E around 20-22 range… to keep the differential optimzed ?


#2

So many of us are broken(libido Ed) in different ways so there is no one answer.
For me the higher my TT the more libido I have. E2 can play a some part if I let it get too high I lose all desire for sex. I can lose my boner in the middle of a blow job.

I have a little formula I’ve used for the last few years that has not let me down whether I am maintaining my TRT protocol or blasting to put some muscle on. If I divide my E2 into my TT and I get 15-25 I am golden. I use anastrozole to maintain that value. YMMV but give it a try.


#3

T:E ratio is part of the drug test in athletics, as in 9:1 or less is clean, and it is not testosterone to estrogen. Random trivia for you. More seriously, don’t look for libido answers in these levels, they are not directly related. Some steroids increase libido (halotestin for example, anecdotally), others do not. That is because of how the individual steroid operates on you catecholamines and maybe your serotonin, not on your actual test or free test levels.


#4

@hardartery @hrdlvn

Good info - thanks guys

So I am no hormone expert and I realize libido and the inner workings of the endocrine system are complex. But i am looking at everything through my own experiences and would appreciate feedback just to better understand all of this … and this relates to my TRT as I am not having the libido surge most discuss.

Anyway about 12 years ago i was sold an OTC “test booster” from a gym owner who aslo owned a supplent shop. I had never done anabolics and honestly, i never had a high sex drive and never had that “killer instinct” where i had to have the girl type feel at any point really when i was a young man.

I began taking the test booster and he told me to take this ancilalry set of meds with it. I trusted the guy and my goal was to get stronger and to “get an edge” in the gym and with my lifts. For most of my adult life i was 6’ and around 175.

The stuff he gave me was a PH hybrid with a stout dose of Superdrol as one of the main ingredients. In 2 months my strength was through the roof, i was a sex machine, and muscles felt like granite, not flesh.

About half way through the cycle (i didnt know i was on cycle) my nips itched and i could tell my libido was going crazy so i called him. he added A-HD (i think it was that) as an OTC estrogen supporesor.

When i would take this blue pill i would notice that my libido would skyrocket even higher for a few hours just after that. Like i was itching to get laid.

This was all new to me. I mean i had a sex drive prior to this but this was insanity. So to tie this into my inital question - i am assuming that the superdol an the other Dione PH ramped up my angrogen receptors (not my test), and casued me to get the lib surge, but since my nips would itch, that would be an indication of high estrogen… and when the A_HD would knock that down the lib would rise even higher …

So based on these facts, i am assuming the difference or “spread” between the two numbers here was causing my libido spike? Am i wrong?


#5

Interesting. Currently my ratio is at 21 with a TT of 1998 and E2 of 96 and I feel great with no AI. So it would seem maybe there is something to your ratio.


#6

I wish i would have had baseline nmbers from 20 years ago, also when i took that PH, and maybe a year or two ago just so i could compare how things trend over time - as well as to see if they pair up with the ratio/formula of yours


#7

Probably because of your high SHBG where it (E2) binds.


#8

SHBG was 27 at last test


#9

That’s… interesting… definitely not high


#10

Sorry I have no experience with any of that and I don’t know how it might effect you long term. It sounds like those drugs supressed your natural T production and you never got it back. Who knows if it damaged something else. You might have better luck asking about these drugs over in the pharma forum the boys there know a lot more about this stuff. Sorry I can’t help and I won’t fake it.


#11

Nice blast I hope that is not your TRT level?


#12

Shouldn’t any ratio be based on freeT level as opposed to TT?


#13

In my view Free T and Free E2 and the most important factors, almost no one tests for Free E2 but test for Free T.


#14

Unsure. What is the concern if this is my TRT level?


#15

understood

i was more interested in the hormone levels the drug caused, and how those in turn effected other aspects - such as ibido.

Maybe my earlier post wasnt clear - i wasnt interested in the superdrol but i guess i was trying to get feedback on how that libido surge is created in terms of T vs E levels… such as if both are sky high, then libido is likely shot, if T is usper high and E is middle of the road, lib will be really high, if both are low, lib will be low … something like that


#16

It is my understanding and I have no studies to back this but I believe your DHT lvl plays a big role in libido. My TRT doc prescribs T cream to be put on your ball sack at the same time you are injecting T cyp for your hypogonadism.
I have never crashed my E2 so I can’t speak if that causes a loss of libido but I have ran my E2 high before and I did lose all desire for sex and looking at women did not turn me on. I have my best libido when my TT is 800-950 and my E2 is 24-27. I am currently blasting right now with 380mg/wk my Free T will be 4x the upper labcorp range and my E2 is probably over 100 and I have no interest in sex. So for me just having a thru the roof TT does not do much for libido. I’ve got some old 20% T cream I might put a click or two on my balls to see if my interest perks.

Anyway hope that helps. Is this answer closer to your question?


#17

very interesting - and yeah that is why i asked the question, so thanks for the info. i wasnt sure if i was conceptualizing this whole process corectly or if i was not accounting for something … maybe i should have been attributing my libido spike during this couple of months to the possible increase in DHT? and not focus on the E vs T thing …


#18

Superdrol is 5a reduced, just like DHT. It has a 2a methyl just like masteron (2a methyl DHT). Its also has a 17a methyl group increasing the bioavailability. So basically it is 2a, 17a dimethyl DHT. The two methyl groups change the shape of the molecule, thus changing the binding of the molecule and the properties of the molecule.

So - i have asked this before in another thread about how TRT will / does / could affect Libido (as well as focus and well being) and after reading your last reply (which spurred me to do a quick google search) i am seeing that SD is a DHT derived compound.

So I would assume you are right - that s spike in DHT is the cause for the libido spike - not just in my scenario but in general it seems


When Taking Testosterone, Recommend an AI?
#19

I believe they all have a part in the game just some are more important than others. DHT come from T so a higher T gives you more DHT but also a higher T gives you more E2.

To keep my libido I control the shit out of my E2 when on my TRT dose using micro doses of anastrozole.

TRT 150mg/wk two shots M/T 800iu HCG 2 shots 400 each .125mg anastrzole Sunday.

Blast no AI 1500 iu HCG 3 shots 500 iu each M/W/F to protect my balls from atrophy.


You know how to read blood tests right?


#20

so on blast you got your TT up to almost 2000, but your E was sky high at 125? I would assume your Lib was a no go at this time?