T Nation

Libido During PCT is Dead


#1

Used DECA 250 and SUSTANON 250 for 6 weeks. First week 1 Ml deca and sustanon!
Next 5 weeks 1.5 ml of both!
Started my pct one week after the last sustanon dosage. Used HCG 5000 ui for first 5 days, Tamoxifen 20 mg, Clomid 100 mg. I had libido but low… I have used hcg 3 times till now… After every 5 days 5000 iu… Total of 15000 iu hcg till now… And the rest have been same clomid 100 mg, Tamoxifen 20 mg… But I’ve lost my libido at all, my dick doesn’t get harder at all, don’t feel horny anymore. Please help!


#2

Your PCT is brain dead. More is worse. See the sticky then its second post and find my post re PCT/


#3

I don’t understand… Kindly tell me have u written your answer anywhere else?


#4

Bear with me, i am new on this forum, don’t knhow to use it… I really need u to answer me sir


#5

Man please tell me which medicine i should use? Arimidex? And how much?


#6

is found here:


#7

I read all of this… What should i do now? Restart a pct or stop everything… Or use anastrazole?


#8

please ksman i need your suggesstions


#9

#10

First stage:
1a) Inject 250iu hCG SC EOD then do labs for TT, FT, E2 after 4-6 weeks. If things have not improved, stop and go to TRT.

1b) Now if T levels acceptable, now do Nolvadex below to get hypothalamus and pituitary in the game.

Now hypothalamus and pituitary are active.

—or

1a) 20 mg Nolvadex EOD [Clomid if only option]. Then do labs for LH/FSH, TT, FT, E2 after 4-6 weeks. If LH/FSH low, stop and go to TRT. If LH/FSH good and T levels still low, stop and go to TRT.
Now tests, hypothalamus and pituitary are active.

If you get this far, your HPTA is working. If you are stopping TRT and going back to where you were, in most cases you will not be better than before TRT.

Some younger guys with low-T can restart. Not always going to work often fails.

So this is the way that PCT should be done for those who have been doing gear or got in trouble along the way.

You need to be taking anastrozole as required to keep E2 near the 22pg/ml [80pmol/L] target. For mid range T levels during the above, 0.5mg/week in EOD dosing would be a good start. Typically this should be maintained after this process is complete to prevent estrogen rebound. So cruise on anastrozole afterwards for a few weeks then taper out. You need to have a liquid solution of anastrozole in vodka to dispense by the drop for small dose increments. Dissolve tablets 1mg/ml in a dropper bottle, count drops per ml and do the math. Always shaken, not stirred before dispensing.

Second stage:
We have things working, now we need to slowly taper off of the SERM and see if the HPTA can stand on its own feet. We have E2 managed to prevent estrogen rebound. As SERM levels drop, SERM induced T–>E2 will drop. The hypothalamus will now see the estrogen levels in your blood and the hypothalamus will start to tell the pituitary what to do based on the combined negative feedback of estrogens and testosterone. After you taper off of anastrozole and a few weeks later, do your labs. Hopefully the result after few weeks is favorable.

Older guys will probably never benefit from the above, its a younger guys’ game. There is no fix for age related secondary hypogonadism and with primary hypogonadism, there is nothing to restart!

1 Like

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created
Sep '15
last reply
11d28
replies

Igs
Sep '15
Sticky, please.

Phoblacht
Sep '15
Great post KSman.

49perccent
Oct '15
does anyone can answer why and how clomid cause vision problems, beacuse I can’t find answer on web ?

KSman
Oct '15
No not know the mechanism. But note that the symptoms are typically as seen with female patients where dose and duration may not apply to someone in a TRT context. I do not see that Nolvadex has this problem. Nolvadex do what clomid does also without the estrogenic side effects that some have with clomid.

jkyle2179
Oct '15
Ksman. I’m curious as to what u think the age cutoff would be for this not being effective. Say 35 and below?

KSman
Oct '15
jkyle2179 wrote:
Ksman. I’m curious as to what u think the age cutoff would be for this not being effective. Say 35 and below?
Good question and in theory one could have data, averages and conclusions. But every individual case should be treated as such. If one is primary, not much is going to happen. As we age, the testes are going to be less productive even with ample LH/FSH. And restarts do not always work. The attempt to restart does provide useful diagnostic data. Some feel like its time for TRT and some are reluctant to start TRT “decades early”.

A hCG challenge is simple and if that works, then a restart could be attempted and if that fails, hCG monotherapy is an option and one could also try a SERM. When trying a SERM, LH/FSH labs are the next decisive point.

10 DAYS LATER
12 DAYS LATER

Is this what i should do now?


#11

Kindly tell me what should i do 250 iu hcg today? That’s it?