T Nation

Libido Dropped After 2 wks On Androgel. Help?


#1

Ok Guys, First time member and poster.

Have had issues being tired and roller-coaster sex drive for 10 years (sometimes super horny for 3-4 days and then libido for 3-4 days). Used Viagra regularly but I now believe that it was not a blood supply issue - it was poor libido due to hormones.

Went to Dr, demanded labs and Testosterone. Labs showed Total Testosterone at 254.
They didn’t look at E2 and I didn’t know enough at the time to tell them.

Starting a few weeks ago, I took 100 mg of Generic Androgel 1% daily (50 mg in AM and 50mg in PM). I was also applying some to my man parts for the additional absorption (I know not recommended).

Sorry if this is TMI: Long story short, 3 days after starting I was the horniest I have ever been in my life. All I could think of was sex. My wife of 10 years told me to, “stop looking at her like a piece of meat.” I couldn’t stop looking at her boobs and grabbing her, lol.

In 2 weeks I had made more progress building muscle in the gym than I had over the past year (no kidding). I had double the energy, was stronger and felt great after 6 hours of sleep - waking on my own. I used to be super tired even with 8 hours of sleep.

I had super boners every morning (had to masturbate about twice a day to keep myself under control). Needless to say it was f-ing AWESOME!!! My pants got looser too so I was losing fat. I even think I looked younger / my skin was in better shape. It was amazing and I was the happiest I have ever been in my life. I felt calm, no stress, was a sexual Tyrannosaurus, strongest erections of my life, gaining muscle and burning fat. I had more patience for my wife and son too.

After that two weeks, something changed. The massive sex drive tapered off over a few days time and I descended back to being a mortal. I think I lost some of that muscle gain also. And I had a breakout along my hairline and in my scalp - nothing major but that is not normal for me at all so something was up. HUGE Disappointment dudes. I stopped using the gel about 4-5 days ago since it did me no good anymore and got a script for Depo Testosterone Cypionate.

Yesterday I started my first injection of Testosterone Cypionate I will list my new medicine protocol at the bottom of this post.

I don’t know what caused the sudden drop of benefits. Maybe high E2? Maybe my skin adapted and stopped absorbing the gel? Maybe my natural T production stopped real fast due to applying to my nuts? Maybe all of the above.

I don’t know what my levels where during the “Awesome Phase” - I wish I did. If you ever hit that point you should drop everything and go do blood work so you know your sweet spot.

Can anyone please help me understand what caused the quick drop off of the benefits I had? How do I get it back? Am I being too impatient on the Test Cyp?

I would literally give my right nut to get back to where I was and stay there. I would surgically remove it and hand it over. Literally.

37 yrs old, 6’ 190lbs. Here is the new protocol which I started yesterday. So far I have done one inject of Test Cyp and a bit less than 1/2 Anastrozole (Arimidix). So far I can’t tell anything is happening:

Day 1: Testosterone Cypionate 1/2 ml (Cypionate Intramuscular buttocks shot)

Day 2: Arimidex 1/2 tablet (estrogen blockers)

Day 3: HCG 500 units (50U on the insulin syringe) (natural testosterone stimulation)(Subcutaneous injection in the belly)(Refrigerate)

Day 4: Testosterone Cypionate 1/2 ml (Cypionate Intramuscular buttocks shot) Arimidex 1 capsule(estrogen blockers)

Day 5: Arimidex 1/2 tablet (estrogen blockers)

Day 6: HCG 500 units (50U on the insulin syringe) (natural testosterone stimulation)(Subcutaneous injection in the belly)(Refrigerate)

Day 7: No Meds

Please help me understand what happened to mess me up and what I need to do to get back to that great place? If you are experienced, please lend me your expertise as I will be forever grateful for your help.

Thanks Guys :slight_smile:


#2

It’s hard to say without labs, but yes, it could have been high E2. A lot of people, myself included, get sides from E2 when they begin a therapy.


#3

Thanks GonadTheBarbarian!

I intend to get some new labs done but all I have are the “pre-therapy” labs. I don’t have any from when I felt my my best. Do you think I need to get some more now? The new Testosterone group I am dealing with just took my pre-therapy labs from the previous doctor. They didn’t ask to do more. I can do them on my own if you guys think this is needed to chart a proper course.

This is so important to me I will pretty much do whatever is needed to return to that previous state.

I am open to all input and opinions for what caused the decline in benefits and to you guys’ thoughts on the protocol listed above. My number one focus is to get that crazy libido back. Increased muscle, better sleep and other goodies were great but secondary.

Thank You for your comments! :slight_smile:


#4

Post what you have, with ranges, and start reading the stickies, you will want to be educated about this.


#5

Ok so I have been running the new protocol. I actually continued to use some Androgel too because I had a bunch left over.

Did labs, Total Testosterone was over 2000 and Free T was more than double the highest normal range.
E2 was at 8 (which seems low but I wanted to have sex with everything so maybe that is good for me).

So my numbers were pretty high but I felt GREAT!!! I started taking 2iu of Pharmacy issued Humatrope 6 days ago and stopped using the Androgel to calm my T numbers a little bit.

I will post results of the addition of HGH and the reduced Testosterone.

When my levels were there, I felt so strong dude. I hit new highs for amounts of weight lifted even after taking two weeks off from the gym due to a surgery!!! I was also super sexually charged.

I think my muscles grew faster than my tendons could adapt because I partially ruptured a tendon about 9 days ago in my forearm and my whole forearm because a bruise. It was sick and I am just now healed enough to go to the gym today. I am not a bodybuilder but am going for the super ripped, low fat look with lots of veins showing (but not too many). I do not want to be super sized, just big and very well balanced.

Why would it be bad to keep my Testosterone levels at 1500-2000 though? The links to prostate growth have largely been proven false and my PSA is super low so maybe I should just continue to run supra-physiological T levels because I feel so good that way.


#6

Yet another thread. :slight_frown:

You have questions that seem to indicate that you have not read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category


#7

Hey @KSman,

Mind seeing my thread? Been pinging you for weeks!!


#8

KSMan, I appreciate you reading but don’t tell me how many threads to have my friend. They are all different topics.

Like I said, I appreciate your insight but if you don’t like my threads, don’t read them. Maybe I am misunderstanding you and you are trying to help me but it feels like you are just dumping on me for posting.


#9

I am new to this so if I am taking you the wrong way, please just explain what I am doing wrong in a way that I understand. So far I don’t understand why it is bad to have more than one thread.

I will also read the stickies and maybe then I will better understand.


#10

Here’s the conclusion and this may help others!

Some people said it was E2, some said it was a “honeymoon phase” that happens on TRT and then goes away. I said bullshit to that.

We blamed E2, tried to increase Free T, I tried Proviron. I consulted with more TRT Specialists, read Dr. Shippen and then Dr. Crisler’s books and about 5 others.

In the beginning, I started on 50 mg of 1% Andgrogel a day. Then went to 100 mg of 1% a day. If some was great, more would be even greater! So I started applying to my package for 50% absorption instead of the usual 10-15% you get applying to shoulders. Then with a new doctor, I was using shots - .5 ml, twice a week (200ml per 10ml vial). I was shooting .6 or .7 ml twice a week instead - again thinking more is better.

I also read that the “Direction” your testosterone was moving in was important. So I would apply the gel also on Thursday through Saturday to get my T numbers rising for the weekend.

My Testosterone was <1500 on each test but I NEVER FELT GREAT like I had initially. I was building muscle at the gym but that was not my chief aim really.

I continued to research. Eventually, I read Dr. Shippen or Crisler say they had restored patients to awesome sexual function by LOWERING their Testosterone levels from supraphysiolgical levels to just being high in the range.

I thought it was crazy but I lowered my dose. I went to .5 as instructed and stopped using the gel completely. Now those good times have returned, my wife is complaining because I always want to have sex and stare at her boobs at the beach, lol. I feel great and all the benefits have returned.

The moral of my story is this - more isn’t always better. The numbers on labs are just a gauge. Don’t believe anyone who tells you there is a “honeymoon phase” to TRT and that you can’t get back to it. There is an optimal hormonal range for each person and if you can find the right protocol and are willing to try long enough, the prize at the end is worth ten times the time, trouble and money you could ever spend. Measure how much meds you need based on how you feel. When you make changes, leave it alone for a couple of weeks. Only change one thing at a time so you know what is causing the change.

I hope this experience may help someone else. I pray for you find the same end I have.


#11

Were you absorbing androgel? Yes at first then ??? and no labs.
All of these other changes and no labs.


#12

Good info. I agree completely that you can’t treat a number and that more does not always mean better. My philosophy with all this is to find the minimum effective dose and go from there. (I’m still searching but glad you found your sweet spot). Thanks for posting.


#13

JimGainz, thanks for that. Don’t give up man - it is hard to stay in it all the time even now that I have determined where I need to be. But I am getting better as we go. It was hard to find and so frustrating as I would drift above and below it. But it’s worth it in my opinion.

This part below is not directed at you Jim - you may already focus on these points:

Another thing I did was read Steven Lamm’s book which details how to have good cardio health and protect yourself from free radicals as we age. To me, the supplements, diet and exercise help to eliminate any worries about other issues causing problems. To me, libido and EQ are them most important indicators of my health. If I feel 16-18 years old sexually, things are operating at peak condition imho.

Since there are other factors, it helps to cover them all. If you are doing TRT right but eating lots of refined sugar, not doing regular cardio, or not getting enough sleep, you can’t expect to get optimal results. My guess is many men that need low T have less than enough exercise, improper diet and or poor sleep habits (maybe even sleep apnea sometimes too) that caused some problems to begin with.

For anyone not doing it, please focus on all areas of health along with your TRT to make sure your results are not being skewed by other variables. If that is happening and you don’t fix it, you could try for a lifetime and never find the “sweet spot.” Know what I mean? What is more important: a great sex life + EQ, feeling good, living longer and stronger or eating for pleasure and being lazy?

I know what I want and I’m going for it with research & discipline. I hope the same thing for everyone.


#14

Hi KSman! I was absorbing it the whole time I think. All the labs I have done showed T at 1300+. Usually it just said >1500 and I think that was part of the problem - Dr. Crisler or Shippen one said that they often improved patients libido and EQ by lowering Testosterone levels to the high end of the normal range. I always thought if some is good, more is better but that just isn’t the case.