T Nation

Liberals Don't Understand Economics

hmmmm . . . .

Who said a Liberal ever cared about the economy. As long as they can keep on spending, and getting reelected who cares. I will say the politicians on both sides of the aisle would probably do bad on this test. This is why the bozos need to be kicked out of office. Do what the people want for a change.

Ideology v. logic

RACISTS WITH A RACIST SURVEY. Nothing more.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
RACISTS WITH A RACIST SURVEY. Nothing more.[/quote]

yep - just a bunch of education bigots . . .

If only it were that clear cut.

I think it’s fair to say that liberals tend to care less about economics of a policy.

I also think that the ideology promotes the idea that the government (and other large institutions) can effectively control and direct economies, and that there’s not a real cost to doing this.

I think you’re just setting up a straw man when you say that liberals don’t understand economics. I’d say your typical self-identified conservative Wal-Mart shopper probably doesn’t know much about economics either.

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
If only it were that clear cut.

I think it’s fair to say that liberals tend to care less about economics of a policy.

I also think that the ideology promotes the idea that the government (and other large institutions) can effectively control and direct economies, and that there’s not a real cost to doing this.

I think you’re just setting up a straw man when you say that liberals don’t understand economics. I’d say your typical self-identified conservative Wal-Mart shopper probably doesn’t know much about economics either.[/quote]

Yes, even when giving the correct answer, I wonder how many conservatives necessarily agreed because they truly knew the explanations for their answer, or if they were just responding based on opinion and word association… e.g. free trade=good, market regulation/control=bad, without knowing if,why, or how that’s true.

Of course that wasn’t the intent of the survey, but I bet that’s how the survey-takers responded. As you said, I think it shows that traditionally ‘liberal’ answers don’t necessarily have economics at the heart of the issue.

[quote]NAUn wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
If only it were that clear cut.

I think it’s fair to say that liberals tend to care less about economics of a policy.

I also think that the ideology promotes the idea that the government (and other large institutions) can effectively control and direct economies, and that there’s not a real cost to doing this.

I think you’re just setting up a straw man when you say that liberals don’t understand economics. I’d say your typical self-identified conservative Wal-Mart shopper probably doesn’t know much about economics either.[/quote]

Yes, even when giving the correct answer, I wonder how many conservatives necessarily agreed because they truly knew the explanations for their answer, or if they were just responding based on opinion and word association… e.g. free trade=good, market regulation/control=bad, without knowing if,why, or how that’s true.

Of course that wasn’t the intent of the survey, but I bet that’s how the survey-takers responded. As you said, I think it shows that traditionally ‘liberal’ answers don’t necessarily have economics at the heart of the issue. [/quote]

They are factual questions. You seem to be pointing out that conservative economic theory is based on sound verified facts, and that is somehow unfair.

Conservative ideology comes to the correct conclusion about some economic issues even if conservatives do not understand why.

There is no way liberal ideology would ever arrive at the correct conclusions and most wouldn’t recognize the logic of why, anyway.

Libertarian ideology rests on the assumption that economic and social issues cannot be divorced from each other. It is the most complete ideology with regard to natural law.

One thing I’ve never understood is the liberal hate for corporations.

[quote]Valor wrote:
One thing I’ve never understood is the liberal hate for corporations.[/quote]

The part about that I don’t get is that most liberal ideology is beneficial to large corporations and bad for smaller business. Regulation generally puts large business at an advantage.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

They are factual questions. You seem to be pointing out that conservative economic theory is based on sound verified facts, and that is somehow unfair.
[/quote]

I don’t know how you can say that. Many conservatives promote supply-side economics, and similar theories that are just as “bunk” as Keynesian economics.

We haven’t mastered physics, and our understanding of economics is a lot less complete than our understanding of physics (which still has competing theories for all kinds of things). It’s a leap to assume that economics will ever be as understandable or predictable as (again) physics. I would say that in general we all know very little about the “laws” (if there are any true laws) of economics, and most of what people say is strongly biased by their political leanings.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Conservative ideology comes to the correct conclusion about some economic issues even if conservatives do not understand why.

There is no way liberal ideology would ever arrive at the correct conclusions and most wouldn’t recognize the logic of why, anyway.

Libertarian ideology rests on the assumption that economic and social issues cannot be divorced from each other. It is the most complete ideology with regard to natural law.[/quote]

Actually, it is the Conservatives who understands that economic and social issues cannot be divorced from each other.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Conservative ideology comes to the correct conclusion about some economic issues even if conservatives do not understand why.

There is no way liberal ideology would ever arrive at the correct conclusions and most wouldn’t recognize the logic of why, anyway.

Libertarian ideology rests on the assumption that economic and social issues cannot be divorced from each other. It is the most complete ideology with regard to natural law.[/quote]

I agree with this, especially the part about libertarian ideology.

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Conservative ideology comes to the correct conclusion about some economic issues even if conservatives do not understand why.

There is no way liberal ideology would ever arrive at the correct conclusions and most wouldn’t recognize the logic of why, anyway.

Libertarian ideology rests on the assumption that economic and social issues cannot be divorced from each other. It is the most complete ideology with regard to natural law.[/quote]

Actually, it is the Conservatives who understands that economic and social issues cannot be divorced from each other. [/quote]

Really? Then why do conservatives believe in very little government involvement in economics but feel the need for government intervention in our personal lives?

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]NAUn wrote:

[quote]Spartiates wrote:
If only it were that clear cut.

I think it’s fair to say that liberals tend to care less about economics of a policy.

I also think that the ideology promotes the idea that the government (and other large institutions) can effectively control and direct economies, and that there’s not a real cost to doing this.

I think you’re just setting up a straw man when you say that liberals don’t understand economics. I’d say your typical self-identified conservative Wal-Mart shopper probably doesn’t know much about economics either.[/quote]

Yes, even when giving the correct answer, I wonder how many conservatives necessarily agreed because they truly knew the explanations for their answer, or if they were just responding based on opinion and word association… e.g. free trade=good, market regulation/control=bad, without knowing if,why, or how that’s true.

Of course that wasn’t the intent of the survey, but I bet that’s how the survey-takers responded. As you said, I think it shows that traditionally ‘liberal’ answers don’t necessarily have economics at the heart of the issue. [/quote]

They are factual questions. You seem to be pointing out that conservative economic theory is based on sound verified facts, and that is somehow unfair.
[/quote]

I was pointing out that liberals generally do not place economics as their highest priority. For example, licensing does increase the price of a service, but I still want my doctors to be licensed, even if that does in fact make health care more expensive. And since I don’t think most people surveyed have a strong grasp of economics, I was proposing that perhaps the reasons the answers fell along political lines is because those are also the answers you’d expect on those issues purely from the political perspective.

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Conservative ideology comes to the correct conclusion about some economic issues even if conservatives do not understand why.

There is no way liberal ideology would ever arrive at the correct conclusions and most wouldn’t recognize the logic of why, anyway.

Libertarian ideology rests on the assumption that economic and social issues cannot be divorced from each other. It is the most complete ideology with regard to natural law.[/quote]

Actually, it is the Conservatives who understands that economic and social issues cannot be divorced from each other. [/quote]

Yet most conservatives believe society can only be organized by aggressive means – a.k.a. the government.

The logic of natural law disputes this.

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Conservative ideology comes to the correct conclusion about some economic issues even if conservatives do not understand why.

There is no way liberal ideology would ever arrive at the correct conclusions and most wouldn’t recognize the logic of why, anyway.

Libertarian ideology rests on the assumption that economic and social issues cannot be divorced from each other. It is the most complete ideology with regard to natural law.[/quote]

Actually, it is the Conservatives who understands that economic and social issues cannot be divorced from each other. [/quote]

Really? Then why do conservatives believe in very little government involvement in economics but feel the need for government intervention in our personal lives? [/quote]

What involvment in your personal life? That the life of the human in the womb can’t be terminated at will?

That the liber-al-tarian celebration of the freedom to do anything you want with your body (casual sex) ends up gutting the private institutions (such as intact family) which provided even the poor with some local/self reliance? The poor, those just on the other side of poverty, and those with the imagination to consider an event that could drive them from middle-class to poverty, then turn to government for a social safety net. You know, since you’ve gutted traditional sexual, procreative, marital norms.

Conservatives aren’t even trying to make it illegal for gays to live a purely private ‘marriage.’ That’s the big joke of it all. A homosexual couple could have Bob the transgendered gay bar owner pronounce them husband and husband, today. And I have not read one mainstream Conservative suggest otherwise. Libertarians who fight for ‘gay marriage’ aren’t even fighting for the expansion of individual rights. State recognized marriage isn’t even about the individual! It is a special privileging of the smallest social institution which can bear and raise it’s OWN children. State recognition (and it’s special benefits) of gay marriage makes about as much sense as state recognition of non-sexual roomate-marriage. Libertarians, the useful idiots that they are, would use the government to further demolish the high pedestal marriage should be set on, knocking it low and wide. So, instead of something to look up to, to aspire to, it’s pretty much a curb one might stumble over for the lack of it’s stature.

Just some examples of how you guys are your own worst enemies.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Conservative ideology comes to the correct conclusion about some economic issues even if conservatives do not understand why.

There is no way liberal ideology would ever arrive at the correct conclusions and most wouldn’t recognize the logic of why, anyway.

Libertarian ideology rests on the assumption that economic and social issues cannot be divorced from each other. It is the most complete ideology with regard to natural law.[/quote]

Actually, it is the Conservatives who understands that economic and social issues cannot be divorced from each other. [/quote]

Yet most conservatives believe society can only be organized by aggressive means – a.k.a. the government.

The logic of natural law disputes this.[/quote]

So do most libertarians.

Only the dreamy anarchist believes otherwise.

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Conservative ideology comes to the correct conclusion about some economic issues even if conservatives do not understand why.

There is no way liberal ideology would ever arrive at the correct conclusions and most wouldn’t recognize the logic of why, anyway.

Libertarian ideology rests on the assumption that economic and social issues cannot be divorced from each other. It is the most complete ideology with regard to natural law.[/quote]

Actually, it is the Conservatives who understands that economic and social issues cannot be divorced from each other. [/quote]

Yet most conservatives believe society can only be organized by aggressive means – a.k.a. the government.

The logic of natural law disputes this.[/quote]

So do most libertarians.

Only the dreamy anarchist believes otherwise.[/quote]

I agree there are very many inconsistent libertarians.

And I also agree for some libertarians to be anarchists is only because of their ability to DREAM BIG!