T Nation

Liberals and PETA

I’m a liberal and I know many liberals and we all hate PETA too. Just because the PETA people are liberals does not mean that all liberals like the PETA people.

That is like saying the Ku Klux Klan are conservatives that must mean that conservatives love the Ku Klux Klan.

Sorry for my rant, but I’m sick of every time I have a debate about politics with people they always throw PETA in my face.

I think the general conservative movement (at least the major leaders) have spoken clearly about the fact that the KKK is not representative of the movement in genral and are basically whacko’s and bad people.

I don’t think the liberal movement has done this, in fact I think some liberal leaders are embracing PETA. This is the identity crisis the democratic party is having. The problem is that the loudest section of your party is out there on the fringe, you guys over towards the middle need to kick them the hell out and take your party back. Otherwise the right will continue to classify the whole group as extremists or at least supportive of extremists. The ACLU supporting NAMBLA comes to mind as something I would despise. But in oreder for your party to gain respect it neads to give the ACLU the finger untill it stops supporting crap like this. If I knew a great man who was active in community service, helpful to strangers, gave to charities, and all that really good stuff, But… he had a little side problem of raping 12 year old boys, I think I’d still think of him as a bad person and want to knock his teeth out. Just my thoughts to what you can do instead of rant about it.


mmmmmmmmmm…

animals are tasty!

Veg, what up?

Good post as always, bro. ILGWB7: He makes an excellent point. The left has lost its identity somehow. We all saw in this last election cycle that the democrats basically fell into a “Bush sucks” philosophy, and couldn’t come up with much better than that. When this happens, y’all are left with letting the other side define you, and that’s not good. The right’s list was quite long: higher taxes, wishy-washy on foreign policy, extremist world-view, they even went so far as to call Kerry a traitor to the country. What the left needs to do, in my opinion, is just what the Veg-a-holic suggested: kick the freaky splinter groups to the curb, and get behind somebody that smells like a winner.

The left has gained the respect and support of the Hollywood gang. Kerry had a chance to distance himself from the freak and weirdo parade (which includes the ACLU, PETA, M.Moore, and many others). But instead, he emnbraces them and, if I’m not mistaken, said that they speak for America.

PETA is attached to the Democrats because the Dem leadership is affraid to distance themselves from those that they feel speak for America.

Being the so-called ultra-liberal, this might come as a shock, but I question the wisdom of thinking we know better than nature.

Life is a struggle for survival. Animals eat plants. Animals eat animals. There is no thought about the concepts of right and wrong.

Where I may get concerned is if we aren’t being humane in our treatment of the animals we are going to eat.

It PETA wanted to be a realistic organization they could focus on the promotion of proper treatment during the process of raising and slaughtering livestock or other living resources.

At the same time, I don’t think it is fair to castigate liberals because they don’t ostracize these groups. It’s not like Kerry was going to advocate that cows no longer be consumed. It’s similar to the Bob Jones nonsense, the republicans don’t reject that group, but they don’t set policy based on it either.

However, you may have a point if they are in fact embracing these groups – as I’m sure many would be aghast if Bush was embracing the Bob Jones group and promoting it’s viewpoints to the populace or setting policy due to them.

Saw one of the PETA “nuts” on one of the news programs the other day. He was advocating the elimination of fishing as he said that fish can feel pain…I think he was from Canada too, no seriously.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
Saw one of the PETA “nuts” on one of the news programs the other day. He was advocating the elimination of fishing as he said that fish can feel pain…I think he was from Canada too, no seriously.[/quote]

Hey, Canadians have crazy people, too:)

I think that one of the main reasons most people who are somewhat fitness-minded absolutely disagree with PETA is because we actually know that meat=good.

I don’t think they know shit about nutrition, and what they do know, they get from other idiots making up lies about meat being bad.

They simply look at it from a “humanitarian” (or should it be animalitarian?) perspective, and say that animals feel pain just like humans.

If anything, they should try to make the conditions animals are kept in more “animalitarian”, increase hygienic standards and investigate hormones and stuff like that. Then they would actually have a good purpose, and they’d be doing society a favour.

These people should be shot for trying to interrupt the food chain. As a matter of fact, let’s just eat them:)

http://images.t-nation.com/forum_images/./1/.1101065243950.Gods_Creatures[1].JPG

ha

[quote]ILOVEGWBUSH5 wrote:
These people should be shot for trying to interrupt the food chain. As a matter of fact, let’s just eat them:)[/quote]

I wouldn’t suggest this, bro. Vegetarians are stringy. You have to marinade them forever.

Follow the Money!

http://www.anxietycenter.com/greens/main.htm

Green Wealth: Funding the Enemy
By Alan Caruba
Green and animal rights organizations do not subsist on the sale of calendars, books, and stuffed animals. They are wealthy beyond the comprehension of most Americans and others who support them in the belief they are “protecting the environment” and saving animals from “cruelty” and “extinction.”
You will be astonished to learn that there are more than 4,000 environmental groups in America today. “And the number is growing,” warns Ron Arnold of the Center for the Defense of Free Enterprise, “and they are really out to get you.” Worse, they have the clout and the money to do it." They use it to lobby and support members of Congress to initiate legislation harmful to the interests of all Americans.
Hugo Gurdon of the Competitive Enterprise Institute, in a recent National Post article, noted that “The 12 biggest environmental pressure groups in the United States enjoy combined annual revenues of $1.95 billion, according to the latest Internal Revenue Service figures. Only 725 of the United States? 20 million companies can boast such magnificent cash flow.”
“Among the green dozen are some?Nature Conservancy ($731 million) and the Wildlife Conservation Council ($311 million)?that are merely left-of-center. But there are genuinely extreme organizations?the World Wildlife fund ($118 million) and the Sierra Club ($73 million)?that militate aggressively against the free market and attack property rights to the detriment of the economy and the majority of ordinary people,” said Gurdon.
Arnold has written several excellent books on this topic that demonstrate how the Natural Resources Defense Council, the Environmental Working Group, and the Rainforest Action Network, have a long record of activities that undermine entire industries and the welfare of the nation?s mining, ranching and farming enterprises.
In the case of the animal rights groups, Arnold has documented how People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) is a case history of IRS tax law violations, stolen trade secrets, advocated arson, and assaulted business executives.
The Greens and the Animal Rights groups use every protection afforded by the Constitution and every loophole in our legal and IRS codes to pursue their war on capitalism, property rights, and the welfare of this nation. They are a Socialist Taliban.
Americans for Medical Progress, a group that monitors the Animal Rights movement that opposes the use of animals for medical research, recently released information concerning the wealth of some of the leading groups. PETA?s annual budget is $13,499,614. It has net assets worth $4,480,988. It heavily underwrites the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine whose budget runs $2,915,847.
The American Anti-Vivisection Society as assets in excess of $11,561,737 and an annual budget of $1.2 million. The Fund for Animals has net assets in excess of $189,438,862 and runs an annual budget of more than $5.6 million. Defense of Animals is worth $1,483,334. There are others that include the Animal Welfare Institute, the Animal Legal Defense Fund, the Doris Day Animal League, and the Humane Society of the United States.
The Greens are leading the battle against genetically modified foods, a scientific breakthrough that promises to end famine. They are behind the US government?s former forest management policies that have led to years of catastrophic fires. Within the passed few weeks the Bush administration has announced the revisions necessary to thwart this menace. Through their use of the Endangered Species Act and other “environmental” legislation, they fund the attack on property rights, the keystone of the American economy. They have undermined the training of our nation?s military through such laws as well.
While our attention is focused on the threat of the global Islamic Jihad, we also have to keep an eye on these groups. The threat of the Earth Liberation Front and the Animal Liberal Front is international in scope and increasing daily here on the home front. They have begun to use violence against individuals to achieve their goals. In the past, they have specialized in arson and vandalism, some of which has destroyed years of scientific research for the benefit of humans, animals and protection of natural resources such as our forests.
You will learn the facts when you visit www.undueinfluence.com, a site provided by the Center for the Defense of Free Enterprise, www.cdfe.org. In the interest of full disclosure, I am an adjunct scholar of the CDFE.
The next time someone buys a Sierra Club calendar or gets a slick brochure asking for a donation to these causes, that money will fund the enemies of America.

Rebecca:

Great link. Thanks.

No doubt that many if not most big non profit organizations are corrupt. However there are some smaller organizations that do good work. In the context of animal welfare, best friends animal sanctuary is a great organization, so is the Elephant Sanctuary, and adopt a chimp. The good that these organizations do is easy to measure.

Mike Mahler

Anyone that thinks GMO foods are a breakthough that will end famine is very ignorant to the realities of these “frankenfoods” and should really “follow the money” on that one.

[quote]Rebecca wrote:
Follow the Money!

http://www.anxietycenter.com/greens/main.htm

Green Wealth: Funding the Enemy
By Alan Caruba
Green and animal rights organizations do not subsist on the sale of calendars, books, and stuffed animals. They are wealthy beyond the comprehension of most Americans and others who support them in the belief they are “protecting the environment” and saving animals from “cruelty” and “extinction.”
You will be astonished to learn that there are more than 4,000 environmental groups in America today. “And the number is growing,” warns Ron Arnold of the Center for the Defense of Free Enterprise, “and they are really out to get you.” Worse, they have the clout and the money to do it." They use it to lobby and support members of Congress to initiate legislation harmful to the interests of all Americans.
Hugo Gurdon of the Competitive Enterprise Institute, in a recent National Post article, noted that “The 12 biggest environmental pressure groups in the United States enjoy combined annual revenues of $1.95 billion, according to the latest Internal Revenue Service figures. Only 725 of the United States? 20 million companies can boast such magnificent cash flow.”
“Among the green dozen are some?Nature Conservancy ($731 million) and the Wildlife Conservation Council ($311 million)?that are merely left-of-center. But there are genuinely extreme organizations?the World Wildlife fund ($118 million) and the Sierra Club ($73 million)?that militate aggressively against the free market and attack property rights to the detriment of the economy and the majority of ordinary people,” said Gurdon.
Arnold has written several excellent books on this topic that demonstrate how the Natural Resources Defense Council, the Environmental Working Group, and the Rainforest Action Network, have a long record of activities that undermine entire industries and the welfare of the nation?s mining, ranching and farming enterprises.
In the case of the animal rights groups, Arnold has documented how People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) is a case history of IRS tax law violations, stolen trade secrets, advocated arson, and assaulted business executives.
The Greens and the Animal Rights groups use every protection afforded by the Constitution and every loophole in our legal and IRS codes to pursue their war on capitalism, property rights, and the welfare of this nation. They are a Socialist Taliban.
Americans for Medical Progress, a group that monitors the Animal Rights movement that opposes the use of animals for medical research, recently released information concerning the wealth of some of the leading groups. PETA?s annual budget is $13,499,614. It has net assets worth $4,480,988. It heavily underwrites the Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine whose budget runs $2,915,847.
The American Anti-Vivisection Society as assets in excess of $11,561,737 and an annual budget of $1.2 million. The Fund for Animals has net assets in excess of $189,438,862 and runs an annual budget of more than $5.6 million. Defense of Animals is worth $1,483,334. There are others that include the Animal Welfare Institute, the Animal Legal Defense Fund, the Doris Day Animal League, and the Humane Society of the United States.
The Greens are leading the battle against genetically modified foods, a scientific breakthrough that promises to end famine. They are behind the US government?s former forest management policies that have led to years of catastrophic fires. Within the passed few weeks the Bush administration has announced the revisions necessary to thwart this menace. Through their use of the Endangered Species Act and other “environmental” legislation, they fund the attack on property rights, the keystone of the American economy. They have undermined the training of our nation?s military through such laws as well.
While our attention is focused on the threat of the global Islamic Jihad, we also have to keep an eye on these groups. The threat of the Earth Liberation Front and the Animal Liberal Front is international in scope and increasing daily here on the home front. They have begun to use violence against individuals to achieve their goals. In the past, they have specialized in arson and vandalism, some of which has destroyed years of scientific research for the benefit of humans, animals and protection of natural resources such as our forests.
You will learn the facts when you visit www.undueinfluence.com, a site provided by the Center for the Defense of Free Enterprise, www.cdfe.org. In the interest of full disclosure, I am an adjunct scholar of the CDFE.
The next time someone buys a Sierra Club calendar or gets a slick brochure asking for a donation to these causes, that money will fund the enemies of America.
[/quote]

Hehehehe. It’s funny to see they are the source of all evil in the world.

There needs to be a balance. You can’t have industry completely destroying the environment. You can’t have greens groups completely destroying industry. I don’t think there is as much danger of the latter as this alarmist link would lead us to believe.

Oh no, protections in the constitution and legal loopholes… heaven have mercy, what a danger that must represent! Bahahahaha. Let’s stick to pointing out where they break the rules instead of making their law abiding behaviors sound sinister.

vroom:

You always spout off, attempting to sound fair and then wonder off firmly on the side of liberalism. No, no keep it up it’s actually funny!

[quote]storey420 wrote:
Anyone that thinks GMO foods are a breakthough that will end famine is very ignorant to the realities of these “frankenfoods” and should really “follow the money” on that one.
[/quote]

i couldn’t have said it better.

To which Zeb replied…

[quote]
You always spout off, attempting to sound fair and then wonder off firmly on the side of liberalism. No, no keep it up it’s actually funny![/quote]

You really think so? You think people should not be able to hide behind the constitution in order to protect their rights? You think that people should not use the existing legal system to their own advantage?

Let me ask you, do you voluntarily go about paying more taxes than you have to? Nobody is going to claim following tax laws carefully to minimize payment is wrong. How can you claim that following other laws is wrong? The correct action, if the laws are wrong, is to fix the laws and close the loopholes, if that is appropriate.

Develop some sense man. Nothing in this is “liberal” or party based in any way.

PETA is off track, filled with nutbars, who have strange beliefs. I simply believe that if they aren’t doing anything illegal they are perfectly right to pursue their interests or beliefs. It’s how the country was founded… giving people freedom to follow their beliefs.

What planet are you from?

[quote]vroom wrote:
PETA is off track, filled with nutbars, who have strange beliefs. I simply believe that if they aren’t doing anything illegal they are perfectly right to pursue their interests or beliefs. It’s how the country was founded… giving people freedom to follow their beliefs.
[/quote]

I agree, vroom, but…

[quote]In the case of the animal rights groups, Arnold has documented how People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) is a case history of IRS tax law violations, stolen trade secrets, advocated arson, and assaulted business executives.
[/quote]

These guys aren’t exactly holding up signs at rallies. These are not harmless people. They are well-funded extremist criminal psychos. They’re also elitist ultra-liberal – oh, wait… nevermind. :slight_smile:

As an aside: Do y’all know why the endangered species list is so damn long? It’s because of all the insect species on it. I forget the exact number of them that go extinct every day, but it’s a lot. Go evolution! :slight_smile:

I remember a lil zine I used to publish back in 94-95 and we ran an add making fun of GAP khakis which used the reasonin similarly used in this thread about PETA and libbys. Take how you want to, it was meant for laughs-

‘Hitler was a Vegetarian and a skilled artist…GAP Khakis’

It was a zine for the underground punk and hardcore scene which was flooded by jock-ridin’ (I may have used to the wrong term here in pun), soy drownin’, bullhorn waving veganites. You know the type. The only thing tougher about them compared to me was their body odor. They sure loved screaming so much that I thought their waif-like bodies were going into grand mal seizures one after the other.

Oh well, so we were being boycotted by a disorganized organization of tough-kids at a show we were playing at and it was quite a sight. Our drummer wore chuck steak on his head in a helmet fashion and had a couple holes fashioned so he could stick out his tongue out of one and look around through the other. Classic display of the true nature of freedom being un-PC.

Sorry if this thread was meant to be serious, but it aroused some funny moments in my life.