T Nation

Let's Talk About Government Lies!

The lies I’m talking about are the brainwashing propaganda that the government spreads about substances etc…

Alcohol.

It’s very legal but very destructive and propably caused more social ills and deaths then any other substance in history. Yet it’s legal…And it’s consumption is encouraged by most physicians for health. That’s not to say it can’t be healthy in moderate dosages.

Cannabis.

Very illegal, but much safer them alcohol. The thing that gets me is people that base their decisions helth safety on not doing “illegal substances”. They see illegal as harmfull and legal as safe, health wise. Anyone see a probelm with that mentality? Cannabis is much safer then alcohol to the point of not being in the same league.

Nicotine.

Again it’s legal, despite the thousands of peple dieing from it’s side effects. It has burdened our health care system, families and made powerfull government lobby groups RICH beyond belief. The harm of this LEGAL substance is knows by all of us.

Anabolic steroids.

Anyone with normal experiecne with this group of substances knows their benefis and potential good they can bring to our health, life quality and extension. Yet the porpaganda spoon fed to us all will tell you that you will pretty much DIE.

And that one about not having ‘sexual relations with that woman’ was a doozie! :wink:

“Whoever could make two ears of corn or two blades of grass to grow upon a spot of ground where only one grew before would deserve better of mankind and do more essential service to his country than the whole race of politicians put together.” - Jonathan Swift.

I think this definition sums up most politicians nicely…

A politician: A suger-daddy/whore who sells to the highest bidder and screws everyone but himself.

[quote]DPH wrote:
I think this definition sums up most politicians nicely…

A politician: A suger-daddy/whore who sells to the highest bidder and screws everyone but himself.[/quote]

I’ll add to that one:

and does it under the guise of protecting the children and advancing the good of communities, families and society.

[quote]Gregus wrote:
The lies I’m talking about are the brainwashing propaganda that the government spreads about substances etc…

Alcohol.

It’s very legal but very destructive and propably caused more social ills and deaths then any other substance in history. Yet it’s legal…And it’s consumption is encouraged by most physicians for health. That’s not to say it can’t be healthy in moderate dosages.[/quote]

But without alcohol people wouldn’t get laid as often, so it balances out. Or at least I wouldn’t, and that’s all that really matters anyway.

Dude- prove weed is safer than alcohol. you cant make blanket statements like that w/o backing them up. A few docs produced a couple vids called “marijuana in the 90s” and “marijuana in the millenium.” Find them. Watch them. Then tell me that weed is safer than alcy. I will give you an example of a study that I cant seem to find in any mainstream sources. A group of pilots did a flight simulator and the scores were recorded. All the pilots took off, performed necessary stuff and landed safely. Then the pilots drank till they were out of their minds and did the sim. They all crashed and died immediately after drinking- they said they felt hammered. 12 hours later a portion crashed and died- they said they still felt sober or slightly off. 24 hours later they landed and lived-they said they felt sober. 36 hours later they landed and lived- they said they felt sober. Now, a few days later the pilots got all smoked up and did the sim. Immediately after marijuana intoxication they all crashed and died- they said they felt high as a kite. 12 hours later they all crashed and died- they said they felt either sober of slightly off. 24 hours later they all crased and died- they all said they felt perfectly sober. 36 hours later a portion crashed and died- they all said they felt perfectly sober. I beleive it was 48 hours or more before all of them were able to land.
You see my point? marijuana intoxicates just like alcy, but the intoxication is much longer lasting and is often not noticed by the smoker. If you are drunk off your rocker you know it, whether you admit it or not, you know when you are drunk. This here study suggests that you may not know that you are still impaired a full day or more after smoking up. Tell me how that makes weed safer than alcy.

Tell me tell me tell me how it makes weed safer?!?!?

WAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

You sound like fucking cry-baby man. Jesus, what a wussy fucking way to post.

Pot bad pot bad pot oh so bad.

Shutup, have a Corona and tell me where the study is or where I can find it you little wuss.

Amir

[quote]DA MAN wrote:
Dude- prove weed is safer than alcohol. you cant make blanket statements like that w/o backing them up. A few docs produced a couple vids called “marijuana in the 90s” and “marijuana in the millenium.” Find them. Watch them. Then tell me that weed is safer than alcy. I will give you an example of a study that I cant seem to find in any mainstream sources. A group of pilots did a flight simulator and the scores were recorded. All the pilots took off, performed necessary stuff and landed safely. Then the pilots drank till they were out of their minds and did the sim. They all crashed and died immediately after drinking- they said they felt hammered. 12 hours later a portion crashed and died- they said they still felt sober or slightly off. 24 hours later they landed and lived-they said they felt sober. 36 hours later they landed and lived- they said they felt sober. Now, a few days later the pilots got all smoked up and did the sim. Immediately after marijuana intoxication they all crashed and died- they said they felt high as a kite. 12 hours later they all crashed and died- they said they felt either sober of slightly off. 24 hours later they all crased and died- they all said they felt perfectly sober. 36 hours later a portion crashed and died- they all said they felt perfectly sober. I beleive it was 48 hours or more before all of them were able to land.
You see my point? marijuana intoxicates just like alcy, but the intoxication is much longer lasting and is often not noticed by the smoker. If you are drunk off your rocker you know it, whether you admit it or not, you know when you are drunk. This here study suggests that you may not know that you are still impaired a full day or more after smoking up. Tell me how that makes weed safer than alcy.[/quote]

Here’s a thought. There are a lot of dumbasses in the world who, without any mind-altering substances, shouldn’t be allowed to drive, play with knives, handles loaded guns (or empty for that matter) and possibly should be made to wear a helmet and not use forks lest they hurt themselves or someone else.

Now, take those same dumbasses and let them get all fucked up with pot, or even alcohol. You all have met someone like this. you may have wondered how they didn’t accidentally drown in the toilet. Now you have your answer to “why not let pot be legal”. That’s my take after seeing the social waste coming into our military lately.

Without getting into specifics, i can tell you that when i read the resons why pot should remain illegal, the bullshit scenarios, the supposed stupor induced by it’s intoxication, all i can do is just not even bother to argue. The ignornce is so profound and deeply entranched without a true understaing, it’s bordering on the nonexistent.

Pot will never ever make anyone violent it just dones not happen. Pot does not stupify you or allow you to do stupid things, ohh you know what? Fuck it, what’s the point. ta ta!

You’re right it’s just a gateway drug leading to the oh so non-dangerous crack cocaine and heroin useage. To argue about marijuana is useless, it’s illegal bottom line.

[quote]Gregus wrote:
Without getting into specifics, i can tell you that when i read the resons why pot should remain illegal, the bullshit scenarios, the supposed stupor induced by it’s intoxication, all i can do is just not even bother to argue. The ignornce is so profound and deeply entranched without a true understaing, it’s bordering on the nonexistent.

Pot will never ever make anyone violent it just dones not happen. Pot does not stupify you or allow you to do stupid things, ohh you know what? Fuck it, what’s the point. ta ta![/quote]

…Pot will not allow you to do stupid things…
You prove that wrong with virtually every push of the enter key on these last 2 threads regarding pot.

Oh, that’s right, I’m just some persona non … to you. Because I don’t agree with you my opinion doesn’t matter. ta ta!

[quote]snipeout wrote:
You’re right it’s just a gateway drug leading to the oh so non-dangerous crack cocaine and heroin useage. To argue about marijuana is useless, it’s illegal bottom line.[/quote]

It’s this kind of informed and thoughtful opinion which makes it such a treat to visit the Poli forums.

Duh! Obviously, pot leads to heroin usage! Ask any heroin junkie and they will tell you it was the weed that made them become addicted to heroin. Same with crackheads, meth freaks… the list goes on. I see them all the time, hollering for methadone and cursing that first joint which made them junkies.

I especially enjoy the experience of watching someone post the comment “it’s illegal, so discussing it is a waste of time”. Dude, this forum is nothing but mental masturbation. OF COURSE it’s a waste of time… that’s the point of it all!

DA MAN, so weed is more dangerous than alcohol because it impairs longer? That doesn’t make a lot of sense. Getting drunk or getting high are equally goofy things to do to yourself. As long as you don’t go around f’ing up other people, what is so bad about either one?

You guys wanna know why marijuana is a gateway drug? Because there’s all this massive fucking hype about it, and then people actually use it and are like “Shit, that’s it? No hallucinations, no passing out, no raging naked girls? This is a fuckin letdown.” And that gets people thinking that other drugs can’t be that bad. The thing is that use of marijuana leads to the realization that there’s a lot of propaganda surrounding drugs, and makes people curious.

I would like to point out that the us governemtn propaganda in scheduling anabolics listed them as a gateway drug also…Just to put things in perspective.

Pot is just as MEDICALLY bad for you as alcohol. It all depends on whether you want to die from throat cancer or cirrhosis of the liver. Pick your poison.
People do just as dumb-ass things on pot as they do when drunk from alcohol.

I think that the focus, initially, of this post was getting at "why the Govt is vilifying steroids/supplements while seemingly ignoring alcohol, tobacco, pot, teletubbies, and sugared cereal, which we all KNOW to have no health benefit to our children. After all, aren’t they trying to ban the supps to protect our children (sarcasm)?

[quote]snipeout wrote:
You’re right it’s just a gateway drug leading to the oh so non-dangerous crack cocaine and heroin useage. To argue about marijuana is useless, it’s illegal bottom line.[/quote]

How come marijuana is a “gateway” drug, but sugar and nicotine aren’t? Every junkie in the world ate twinkies and smoked cigarettes before they shot up, but it’s the weed that gets singled out.

The entire “gateway” drug concept is bullshit. Marijuana and heroin have a TEMPORAL relationship, not a CAUSAL one.

An analogy stolen from a smarter man than I:
If you stand at a bus stop every morning and watch bus A come at 9:00 AM, followed b bus B at 9:15, you might errouneously assume that bus B’s arrival is predicated, or caused, by bus A.
But, if one morning bus A doesn’t show up, bus B will still pull up at 9:15.

Just because pot (or nicotine, alcohol, sugar, steroids, et al.) came first, doesn’t mean it caused the end product: it just means it came first.

Pot is bad for you, no question. To deny the harm it does just bullshit. It weakens the case for legalization.

Anytime you are telling lies to support your position you should rethink your arguments.

I am pro-legalization, but I recognize that marijuana can be harmful.

I also understand that many have overstated the harm it does.

I think the point the guy was trying to make is that there has never been any case of someone overdosing on cannibas, it’s simply not toxic enough no matter how many you smoke at one time. However, there have been many deaths attributed to alcohol poisoning.

The dangers of operating machinery under the influencre of alcohol or cannibas are very real in both instances. It would be very dangerous to drive after smoking pot, but the same is for alcohol.

Did you know the US Govt. sponsored 12 people for the testing of medical marijuana where they receive 300 cigarettes of marijuana every two months or so until they die. Completely legal. Only 7 are left (they didn’t die because of the marijuana) they died from the diseases they had. The point of this program was testing the effects of cannibas assisting in helping the pain from the treatments of these diseases these people had. Cannibas can help with the nausea and pain caused by certain cancer/radiation treatments where no other medication has been found to help these patients. The government shut the program down though, even though they found some possible uses in medical marijuana. However, certain states can now approve the use of medical marijuana.

Do your own research before re-spouting myths. You would if we were talking about steroids and supplements, do the same for anything you are unsure about.

[quote]mica617 wrote:
Pot is just as MEDICALLY bad for you as alcohol. It all depends on whether you want to die from throat cancer or cirrhosis of the liver. Pick your poison.
People do just as dumb-ass things on pot as they do when drunk from alcohol.[/quote]

[quote]keefer wrote:
I think the point the guy was trying to make is that there has never been any case of someone overdosing on cannibas, it’s simply not toxic enough no matter how many you smoke at one time. However, there have been many deaths attributed to alcohol poisoning.

The dangers of operating machinery under the influencre of alcohol or cannibas are very real in both instances. It would be very dangerous to drive after smoking pot, but the same is for alcohol.

Did you know the US Govt. sponsored 12 people for the testing of medical marijuana where they receive 300 cigarettes of marijuana every two months or so until they die. Completely legal. Only 7 are left (they didn’t die because of the marijuana) they died from the diseases they had. The point of this program was testing the effects of cannibas assisting in helping the pain from the treatments of these diseases these people had. Cannibas can help with the nausea and pain caused by certain cancer/radiation treatments where no other medication has been found to help these patients. The government shut the program down though, even though they found some possible uses in medical marijuana. However, certain states can now approve the use of medical marijuana.

Do your own research before re-spouting myths. You would if we were talking about steroids and supplements, do the same for anything you are unsure about.

[/quote]

Keefer,
Lest we forget, Cocaine was a “medicinal” drug, so is Oxycontin, so the point of having it prescribed does not back it as completey medically safe. In the cases that you refer, the drugs were given as a method of comfort for someone who already had a serious disorder. Scripts were not handed out to the Spicoli wannabes that want to smoke up for a buzz.
I completely agree with you on the immediate toxic dangers. The medical dangers that I referred to are all long-term and chronic (no pun intended).

I have, however, seen more of my friends’ (and 2 sisters) lives affected by their pot habit than those of alcohol.

Yes, I HAVE done my research. Both textbook and real world. Mostly in an attempt to sway my sisters (and a couple of friends) away from marijuana use. The fact is, much like cigarettes, alcohol, or (insert whatever vice) there is nothing short of someone WANTING to stop using that will convince a user otherwise. We could go on ad nausem about the cons of any vice. Likewise, you can put a media spin on the WORST vice to make it seem “safe” or “good”.

Besides, you completely missed the point of my post. Go back and read it ENTIRELY and you will se the point that I was making.

I was not making a point of “pot is bad”, because I know that those who have their opinions otherwise will not be swayed.

For the record (and not that I feel I should justify my position), I personally have never smoked it (mostly due to athletics and hopes for a future there- dashed, of course), but I find it funny that it remains illegal while cigarettes are still legal. (I am smart enough to know it’s purely political and financial- hell, I live in the South, where most of the state’s economy relies heavily on tobacco).

I am for legalization simply because I don’t think it’s the govt’s place to tell someone what they can or can’t do TO THEMSELVES. Although I do favor a public smoking (of anything) ban simply because non-smokers shouldn’t have to endure breathing smoker’s second hand smoke AND ONLY FOR THAT REASON.