Let's Get Real

Off Topic
21

People that rip on corporations and business amaze me. If it were not for business and corporations this country would be a shadow of itself.

Everything, and I mean everything, good about this country comes from the free market system and the corporations that flourish in it.

The next time you want to trash big business, stop for a second and look around you, and realize your home, your computer, your food, your car, your health and nearly everything else you can think of was produced by the effort of business.

I’m tempted to go on some sort of Ayn Rand induced rant about money being the root of all good, but it would probably fall on deaf ears.

Say what you want about the political candidates, say what you want about iraq, whatever, but business is the backbone of our country.

Or return to your hippie commune, your choice.

22

Anderson,

You are right on. It is a sad state of affairs that democrats pit group against group. This intercine warfare does not benefit the country.

lumpy,
I accept the moniker of Yankee Doodle Dandee. That is the kindest thing you have ever said to me. That equates to patriotism and love of country. I gratefully accept your compliment.

BrianSmith,
I think you and I could have a spirited and civil argument. I think you are thinking through these complex issues. I do not always agree with your conclusions, but I appreciate the spirit by which you approach an issue.

Blam,
Many of us wonder about that as well. By raising the taxes on our most successful beyond any reasonable measure, you give a disincentive to succeed.

Fortunately, this thinking will not win the election in November. This evening, I’ve heard the early Republican slogan of “Strong and Steady Leadership.” You bet. No one in the world can doubt our resolve to win this war. Under George W., the world knows exactly where we stand. No waffling.

By the way, don’t underestimate the POWER OF DETERRENCE. kim jung il and qadafi understand this very well. The proof is in the results.

23

This statement is just flat out wrong. In fact, I have never heard a more inaccurate statement. Where did you learn this?

24

The idea that a higher tax rate will somehow discourage people from succeeding is laughable.

Alos, I see people throw out these misleading percentage numbers for who pays how much taxes. If the wealthy had (for example) 90 percent of the money in our economy, then they should pay a higher percentage of the total taxes.

“The next time you want to trash big business, stop for a second and look around you, and realize your home, your computer, your food, your car, your health and nearly everything else you can think of was produced by the effort of business.”

Wrong! Everything I own was produced by the sweat of my own brow. Big business didn’t give me jack shit, they charged me dearly every step of the way.

We still have a welfare state in the US, but now that welfare is going to huge corporations and the mega-rich.

Here’s a good article in American Conservative magazine, about how Bush is bankrupting the country with his runaway spending:
“Spending Like a Drunken Democrat:
Bush drives the nation towards bankruptcy.”

"Forget the liberation of Iraq, George W. Bush will be remembered as the president who bankrupted America.

Every president of the past 40 years has contributed to the dire fiscal problems from which the United States now suffers. Bush, however, by massively increasing government spending and doing nothing to reduce the looming burden of Social Security and Medicare, will receive more blame than any of his predecessors."

I will not post the whole article, you can read the rest of it here:
http://amconmag.com/2_16_04/feature.html

But maybe you don’t read stuff from the “liberal media” sources like American Conservative. LOL

25

i think they’re all gay!

26

When you guys start differentiating between capital gains tax and income tax, we will have a nice discussion about taxes…until then, it is rather uneducated.

I posted this before:

Fat-Assed Kennedy could make $0 next year and still have millions in capital gains, which is taxed at a lower percentage than income tax…no? So, it doesn’t matter that he want to raise taxes, he is a fat, gravy drinking, corn syrup filled hypocrite.

Lumpy, we will never tax the riches of the rich by raising income tax… we will only succeed in crushing the men who comprise the backbone of this country… the small to medium business owners. They are the newly rich, and their income is sapped up like maple syrup on a 3268 pancake breakfast at Teddy’s. Pass the butter fat boy.

Every time I here CNN cater to this buffoon and play his drivel, I just want Samuel L to yell: “Shut the fuck up fat man!!!”

You are so right about corporate welfare, but let’s talk water reclamation, let’s talk farm subsidies, let’s talk all the other form of welfare… it’s all BS, but that particular version supposedly fits your needs… because I think you assume only republicans own large corporations.

So please do not talk taxes… it is not the government’s right to dictate who to steal from. Do not punish those who produce. And, if you don’t like the products that big business has provided for your consumption, or you feel they were unfairly priced, then don’t buy them. Make your own. Until then, quit whining. You entered into the bartering agreement under your own free will. Buy the goods or make them yourself… either way, I don’t give a shit. But, don’t buy them, then whine about big business ripping you off.

Move to Kenya and try to acquire a 6 megepixel digital camera… hell, try to acquire dinner. I can almost hear the whining now.

If you say that the rich should pay more than the poor, then you must justify the statement with a principle as to why. Not just because that is fair according to you.

What principle of fairness says that when I go into the 7-eleven to buy gum, I should pay $5432, but when a poor person goes into the store, they should pay $0.25. We both use the same goods and services provided by the government… why do I pay more? What principle says that is fair? Please tell me.

Lumpy, I do agree wth you about free trade. I also remember that both the Dems and Repubs really pushed for NAFTA, right? I distinctly remember Gore giving a speech about the benefits of free trade across the borders… I think it was right after he was done inventing the internet.

Also, remember that our debt must always be measured versus our GDP, and we still have a decent ratio there… Bush isn’t bankrupting us, but you are right, he is way overboard with spending. It is easy to point the finger at Bush, but he could not have prevented the inevitably tech-bubble burst, which was unreasonably supporting the economy. Nor could he have forseen 911… I am assuming. Also, much of the economic prosperity we experienced in the late 90’s was due to the Contract with America (?)…was it not? Clinton was forced to implement some 70 or 80% of that…no?

One last note: wouldn’t we be better giving 15 billion dollars to AIDS research than to African AIDS relief. I would bet that if we finally cured AIDS, Africa would be much better off than by just slowing their deaths… just an idea.

Ok, so here is my request: if you state an opinion, back it with principled argument. This way we can have nice constructive, educated debates. If you have no backing for your opinions, and they are based on nothing but feelings, then I will have to call you a thin-legged, squat rack curling, vag with man-breasts who went to a state school… or I may call you even worse: a politician.

27

I was going to reply, but please see below…

[quote]So please do not talk taxes… it is not the government’s right to dictate who to steal from. Do not punish those who produce. And, if you don’t like the products that big business has provided for your consumption, or you feel they were unfairly priced, then don’t buy them. Make your own. Until then, quit whining. You entered into the bartering agreement under your own free will. Buy the goods or make them yourself… either way, I don’t give a shit. But, don’t buy them, then whine about big business ripping you off.

Move to Kenya and try to acquire a 6 megepixel digital camera… hell, try to acquire dinner. I can almost hear the whining now.[/quote]

Why yes, that sums it up rather nicely, thank you.

28

Something else you might want to consider for the upcoming election…the US Supreme Court. Justices Stevens, O’Connor, and Rehnquist could very well retire considering the first and third are getting Very old and O’Connor is having health problems. Whoever wins the presidency could very well affect the composition of the Court and what happens with various policies such as affirmative action, gay marriage, abortion etc for the next 20-30 years. What scares me more than 4 years of Bush’s rediculous spending is 20 years of a liberal Court.

29

Another gem. I think there is a good reason you studied liberal arts in school.

When you are concerned about capital gains (thank you for opening up the discussion Silverback) every decision you make must take into account taxes.

Further, from a business perspective, small or large, every financial decision takes into account taxes.

To say that taxes (of either type) do not inhibit or discourage successful investments is a statement of ignorance.

30

The beautiful thing about percentages is that they are proportional. If we all pay 10%, the person that made $10 only pays $1, and the person that made $10000 pays $1000. Seems ‘fair’ to me. But when you start ramping up taxes to get more out of the ‘rich,’ you usually only hit the middle class.

The very rich (think Congressmen) have ways of sheltering their income that the working classes do not. If you think otherwise, then you really haven’t been paying attention for the last 30 years.
Do you honestly think the wealthy boys in Congress are going to pass a law that would a) take money out of their pockets, or their family’s pockets, or b) piss off their biggest campaign contributors?