I’m on my 7th day of a letro protocol to reverse gyno and I’m still getting morning wood pretty much every morning and I don’t really have sore joints. Is this normal? I thought my sex drive should be gone by now. Here is the protocol so far:
Day 1: .50mg Letro DONE (11/14/09)
Day 2: 1.0mg Letro DONE (11/15/09)
Day 3: 1.5mg Letro DONE (11/16/09)
Day 4: 2.0mg Letro DONE (11/17/09)
Day 5: 2.5mg Letro DONE (11/18/09)
Day 6: 2.5mg Letro DONE (11/19/09)
Day 7: 2.5mg Letro DONE (11/20/09)
There is no reason to go this high with letrozole AT ALL and no reason EVER to go over 1mg of letrozole per day.
Goddamnit.
But these threads will never die because that damned sticky sits there still.
Lowering estrogen to just below normal range should be plenty to cause the breast tissue to shrink as much as it’s going to. Whatever is left beyond that you are just going to have to get cut out.
[quote]Cortes wrote:
There is no reason to go this high with letrozole AT ALL and no reason EVER to go over 1mg of letrozole per day.
Goddamnit.
But these threads will never die because that damned sticky sits there still.
Lowering estrogen to just below normal range should be plenty to cause the breast tissue to shrink as much as it’s going to. Whatever is left beyond that you are just going to have to get cut out.[/quote]
I appreciate you sharing your advice…would you mind answering the question as well next time?
Are you intentionally being snide, or do you just sound that way?
[quote]Cortes wrote:
Are you intentionally being snide, or do you just sound that way?[/quote]
I came here to get my question answered. I appreciate you sharing your advice. Yes I was being snide. You completely avoided the question and tried to use this thread to front your ideas about the stickies and what you think the proper dosage for letrozole should be. All I am saying is next time you do that, at least make an attempt to answer the question as well, that way you don’t look like a total asshole.
LOL! You’re an entitled son of a bitch, aren’t you!?
If you post a picture of yourself, and you look even HALF as impressive as cortes, I will answer your question.
[quote]Detroitlionsbaby wrote:
LOL! You’re an entitled son of a bitch, aren’t you!?
If you post a picture of yourself, and you look even HALF as impressive as cortes, I will answer your question.[/quote]
Entitled? I came here and politely asked my question. The first guy to respond avoids the question entirely and tries to hijack the thread (whether it was intentional or unintentional is besides the point). Then you come along and ask me to post a picture…since when does a picture over the internet entitle someone to getting their question answered on a forum? I don’t give people respect for a picture of themselves over the internet when they are rude and disrespectful. If that’s your standard for respect then I feel sorry for you.
How long to take effect?
Letro and adex are effective withing a couple of hours. T–>E aromatization rates are altered very fast. Then the body reaches a new balance of a reduced E production rate and your liver’s E clearance rates.
With lower E, there is less E [competitively] blocking T at T receptors.
Your dose of an AI depends on your levels of non-SHBG bound T. That is the nature of a competitive drug.
After you alter E levels [also improving T:E] gene expression is altered in the nuclei of your cells. The cells start to operate differently and tissue groups start to change. For gyno to improve, the tissue needs to shrink. That can take time and depending on how long one has had gyno, the amount of tissue bulk that will not go away is variable. TRT guys often have strong improvements in mental space and libido in 10-14 days. But bulk tissue changes are going to be slow.
When you dose a competitive drug with a longer half life, it can take a week or more to achieve steady state serum levels. You doses seem excessive. So you are probably past serum level ramping up. Side effects such as joint pain are probably individualistic and may not be a good guide for you. The fact that your libido has not crashed or other negative mood or energy effects strongly suggests that you are not over-dosed at this point. It would have been helpful if you provided details of what cycle you are on or were on.
It could be normal. It can take a while IME - especially if you’re Letro is underdosed (or fake in which case it will never happen). It took me at least a couple of weeks before I started to feel the nasty side effects. In fact, I switched suppliers while I was waiting for the magic to happen - prolly just needed to give it more time. Having said that, I would trust Cortes and show him some respect man. He may not have answered your question but he was advising you not to go above 1mg/day. And if you want his advice in the future (which you should), it’s probably not the best attitude.
Die
[quote]monstai2 wrote:
Detroitlionsbaby wrote:
LOL! You’re an entitled son of a bitch, aren’t you!?
If you post a picture of yourself, and you look even HALF as impressive as cortes, I will answer your question.
Entitled? I came here and politely asked my question. The first guy to respond avoids the question entirely and tries to hijack the thread (whether it was intentional or unintentional is besides the point). Then you come along and ask me to post a picture…since when does a picture over the internet entitle someone to getting their question answered on a forum? I don’t give people respect for a picture of themselves over the internet when they are rude and disrespectful. If that’s your standard for respect then I feel sorry for you.[/quote]
Well if you REALLY cared, you could spend the two seconds to google Letro and read some stuff. But no, you decide posting to random internet faces who may or may not give you the correct info. Of course, if you are probably pissed off at the world because you are lazy and fucked up in the first place, and now you’re hoping someone else will fix your mistake.
[quote]KSman wrote:
How long to take effect?
Letro and adex are effective withing a couple of hours. T–>E aromatization rates are altered very fast. Then the body reaches a new balance of a reduced E production rate and your liver’s E clearance rates.
With lower E, there is less E [competitively] blocking T at T receptors.
Your dose of an AI depends on your levels of non-SHBG bound T. That is the nature of a competitive drug.
After you alter E levels [also improving T:E] gene expression is altered in the nuclei of your cells. The cells start to operate differently and tissue groups start to change. For gyno to improve, the tissue needs to shrink. That can take time and depending on how long one has had gyno, the amount of tissue bulk that will not go away is variable. TRT guys often have strong improvements in mental space and libido in 10-14 days. But bulk tissue changes are going to be slow.
When you dose a competitive drug with a longer half life, it can take a week or more to achieve steady state serum levels. You doses seem excessive. So you are probably past serum level ramping up. Side effects such as joint pain are probably individualistic and may not be a good guide for you. The fact that your libido has not crashed or other negative mood or energy effects strongly suggests that you are not over-dosed at this point. It would have been helpful if you provided details of what cycle you are on or were on.
[/quote]
I appreciate the response, I think I’ll just wait another week and see if anything changes. I never did a cycle of anything, I’m completely natural. The gyno is pubertal, I’ve had it for 3 years and I’m 20, so unless I take action it probably won’t go away. Thanks again.
I don’t think it’s underdosed I got it from chemone and they are pretty reputable. Yeah, maybe I just need to give it more time, the gyno has gotten softer and feels like it is separating.
As for Cortes, he may be a knowledgeable guy and probably does have good advice to give. I just wish he would’ve actually answered the question as well instead of avoiding it and going off on a tangent.
[quote]Detroitlionsbaby wrote:
monstai2 wrote:
Detroitlionsbaby wrote:
LOL! You’re an entitled son of a bitch, aren’t you!?
If you post a picture of yourself, and you look even HALF as impressive as cortes, I will answer your question.
Entitled? I came here and politely asked my question. The first guy to respond avoids the question entirely and tries to hijack the thread (whether it was intentional or unintentional is besides the point). Then you come along and ask me to post a picture…since when does a picture over the internet entitle someone to getting their question answered on a forum? I don’t give people respect for a picture of themselves over the internet when they are rude and disrespectful. If that’s your standard for respect then I feel sorry for you.
Well if you REALLY cared, you could spend the two seconds to google Letro and read some stuff. But no, you decide posting to random internet faces who may or may not give you the correct info. Of course, if you are probably pissed off at the world because you are lazy and fucked up in the first place, and now you’re hoping someone else will fix your mistake. [/quote]
Get out of my thread, you’re useless.
[quote]monstai2 wrote:
KSman wrote:
How long to take effect?
Letro and adex are effective withing a couple of hours. T–>E aromatization rates are altered very fast. Then the body reaches a new balance of a reduced E production rate and your liver’s E clearance rates.
With lower E, there is less E [competitively] blocking T at T receptors.
Your dose of an AI depends on your levels of non-SHBG bound T. That is the nature of a competitive drug.
After you alter E levels [also improving T:E] gene expression is altered in the nuclei of your cells. The cells start to operate differently and tissue groups start to change. For gyno to improve, the tissue needs to shrink. That can take time and depending on how long one has had gyno, the amount of tissue bulk that will not go away is variable. TRT guys often have strong improvements in mental space and libido in 10-14 days. But bulk tissue changes are going to be slow.
When you dose a competitive drug with a longer half life, it can take a week or more to achieve steady state serum levels. You doses seem excessive. So you are probably past serum level ramping up. Side effects such as joint pain are probably individualistic and may not be a good guide for you. The fact that your libido has not crashed or other negative mood or energy effects strongly suggests that you are not over-dosed at this point. It would have been helpful if you provided details of what cycle you are on or were on.
I appreciate the response, I think I’ll just wait another week and see if anything changes. I never did a cycle of anything, I’m completely natural. The gyno is pubertal, I’ve had it for 3 years and I’m 20, so unless I take action it probably won’t go away. Thanks again.
It could be normal. It can take a while IME - especially if you’re Letro is underdosed (or fake in which case it will never happen). It took me at least a couple of weeks before I started to feel the nasty side effects. In fact, I switched suppliers while I was waiting for the magic to happen - prolly just needed to give it more time. Having said that, I would trust Cortes and show him some respect man. He may not have answered your question but he was advising you not to go above 1mg/day. And if you want his advice in the future (which you should), it’s probably not the best attitude.
Die
I don’t think it’s underdosed I got it from chemone and they are pretty reputable. Yeah, maybe I just need to give it more time, the gyno has gotten softer and feels like it is separating.
As for Cortes, he may be a knowledgeable guy and probably does have good advice to give. I just wish he would’ve actually answered the question as well instead of avoiding it and going off on a tangent.
[/quote]
Yes - if it’s real and you are taking 2.5mg/day, it will kick your ass eventually. In fact, I reached a point where I decided that it was just not worth it anymore - not being able to think straight and painful joints. I couldn’t run at the gym anymore and I could barely walk my kids to school comfortably. The side effects are really not subtle at all. Once you get them, you will know it. This is all in my experience of course! I suppose there are no guarantees that everybody will experience these side effects or to the degree that I did.
Sidenote: sorry to everyone for the grammatical error above: “…especially if you’re Letro…” should have been “…especially if your Letro…”. I hate it when people make those kinds of mistakes and that time I was guilty.
I can almost guarantee pubertal gyno will not be erased with an aromatase inhibitor. You need to pony up the dough and pay for the surgery.
[quote]Detroitlionsbaby wrote:
I can almost guarantee pubertal gyno will not be erased with an aromatase inhibitor. You need to pony up the dough and pay for the surgery.[/quote]
I’ve read a lot of studies where SERMS were used to reverse pubertal gyno. However, I guess there is no guarantee. I’m just hoping for the best and I figured I should try the most powerful AI before resorting to surgery.
On a good note, the gyno has slightly decreased so who knows maybe things will work out for the best.
You probually got your letro from the same place as me. I think its just pepto bismol and is totally fake. Pm me where you got it.
[quote]juicn4eva wrote:
You probually got your letro from the same place as me. I think its just pepto bismol and is totally fake. Pm me where you got it. Also does anybody have a research chem place that they know is legit? Im tired of fake underdosed crap. Please pm me if yoy do know of any real research sites.[/quote]
Well he mentioned exactly where he got his letro from, so I’d hope you’d be able to figure out if it was the same place or not. You’re welcome to PM me if you want to get opinions on various suppliers. I’m not going to volunteer names, though.
/hijack
You’re the type of person that I’d wish estrogen rebound upon. Show some fucking respect you little twat.
And just some advice. Play it safe. Don’t throw away your old bras yet just because your boobs shrunk a little bit. It may come back and that would be a shame to have go out and buy new ones.
[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
You’re the type of person that I’d wish estrogen rebound upon. Show some fucking respect you little twat.
And just some advice. Play it safe. Don’t throw away your old bras yet just because your boobs shrunk a little bit. It may come back and that would be a shame to have go out and buy new ones. [/quote]
Show some respect? I’m not a little pussy like you. If someone disrespects me I’m not gonna hop on their dick. He disrespected me and my thread first. You probably got your ass kicked in school and now you think you’re tough because you juiced and got big. Get out of my thread pussy.
Lol. Youre the one with tits, not I.