T Nation

Letro and Gyno


#1

Hi Guys, posting for the first time, long time lurker though.

Seems I was hit by a bout of gyno a few weeks back, I ordered a batch of Letro and started dosing around 12 days ago at 2.5mg off cycle, I did not taper up but plan to taper down before started a few weeks of Nolva.

Thing is, I know it takes a while longer for Letro to stabilize but I have not had any of the associated symptoms one would expect on the dosage I am on, no joint pain, no mood swings, no hot flushes, no night sweats...nothing.

I am becoming increasingly worried that the letro is bunk, I don't expect miracles..but I would at least have expected a certain degree of discomfort from 2.5mg.

I know the guys here have extensive experience in terms of dealing with gyno and letro, can anyone give me advice on what the next step should be? either wait it out or source from another supplier?

I really appreciate it.

Thanks


#2

1mg of Adex ruined my joints and libido in a matter of days, I would expect 2.5mg of Letro to be much worse.

FWIW I stuck it out with the Adex and didn't notice much improvement in my gyno. After my next cycle, I stayed on Nolvadex (20mg/day) for an extra 3 weeks and it shrunk considerably. The lumps are down to bb sized where they were pea sized before that. They aren't visible at all anymore.


#3

Im just throwing this out there. And its not meant to be a post saying that it's impossible to rid yourself or shrink gyno with AI's.

But

Out of all of the threads that people create saying that theyre going to use letro to shrink their gyno, how many actually report success?

Ive yet to see a single case. Obviously that doesnt mean it hasnt happened as I dont actively seek threads about this topic, but Id think the stories of success would be more prominent if, well, the attempts were actually successful.

FTR, I think it's a bad idea to do use an AI to try and shrink breast tissue. Mainly because of how simple and effective surgery is and how potential problematic it can be to fuck with your hormones.


#4

I have had similar experiences with research chem letro. Is that what your taking or is it Pharm? Also I agree with the surgery route however not everyone has that kind of money lying around.


#5

I've tried letro to combat tren related gyno (from not controlling estrogen effectively) with decent success....BUT, once the glands develop, they are there for good!!! The best you can hope for is to halt the progress of the gyno and/or shrink the lump.

Mine isn't even noticeable unless my bodyfat gets super low, or when i raise my left arm (left nip), and even then, I'm told it's only really me who notices. If you've been running the letro for 12 days and notice nothing then that would raise some red flags for me about the quality of your AI, especially at 2.5 mg ED. But, everyone has differing degrees of responsiveness.

Having dealt with flare ups over the years I can only give bro knowledge about my own experiences for you going forward. Adex controls flare ups when on cycle effectively, as does aromasin, but letro is superior to those for keeping it totally in check IMO. Nolva is inferior to AI's, as it can halt the progress but doesn't really seem to shrink the lump at all.

Drawbacks are that letro is more difficult to dose appropriately without getting the shitty sides (loss of libido, screaming joints). Most gyno should limit itself anyways. When you're off, the gland will likely shrink...but of course, you can control that on cycle too. Also, from this point on you'll need to be aware that you will be prone to flare ups, and choose your compounds and doses more appropriately, as well as providing estrogen control.

For now, I think you might as well start tapering it down and begin your nolvadex to recover. Your hormones stabalizing out might provide some relief to your issue. Surgery is the ONLY way to eliminate gyno completely.


#6

Not trying to highjack, it is kind of relavent. Does anyone know if it matters how you take liquid rsearch chems. I usually get sores in my mouth when taking liquid letro so I started putting the liquid into a pill capsule with the dropper so that it did not touch the skin on my mouth. and that seems to help. Will that decrease absorption at all?


#7

Thanks for the feedback guys, much appreciated.

The lumps are there, pea sized and protruding from the chest wall, but not outwardly noticeable.

I've seen gyno reversal first hand, my gym partner gets bad flare ups on cycle and has managed to reduce tissue the size of a grape down to nothing by following the same protocol I am using.

I'm going to keep using the letro I have to hand, maybe I will up the dose in the hope that its been underdosed, I have however ordered another bottle from a different chem provider (can't get hold of pharma).

One thing I have noticed though, libido has nose dived, that should be a good sign right? I've also been feeling rather nonchalant.

I'm going to be hammering the cardio over xmas to try and drop my BF down somewhat, I'm pretty confidant it wont be noticeable even if I drop down to around 8-9%.

I guess I'm quite lucky it's only mild! (For now) I just hope I have better luck with the next batch of letro.


#8

Just a quick update. Upping the dose of the liqui letro yielded no sides whatsoever. I have managed to source some brand name letro and it's currently winging its way to me from the good'ol'USA

This is the last time I trust in chem sites. If anyone wants to know which site this is feel free to PM me. Sharing is caring.


#9

SERMs are much more useful than AI's for combating gyno once it has already appeared...AI's are better for prevention (from an effectiveness vs side effects perspective anyway)...but once its there, you need to hop onto the SERM man.


#10

I can say, based on empirical experience that you've got more chance of being handcuffed to a ghost than ridding yourself of gyno with AI or SERM. A SERM will minimize the size of the lumps and help them lose their 'puffiness', but they will NOT disappear.

I think when people say that they have 'got rid of gyno' with AI or SERM they actually mean that they have lowered E2 in the early stages of aromatization (itchiness, soreness, puffiness) and gone back to 'normal'.


#11

My friend was front loading test at 1 gram a week and had fake AI, he complained about sore nipples so I gave him some clomid which eliminated the irritation in a day or so at 100mg a day.


#12

There is no hard evidence to prove that Nolva or Clomid shrinks gynomastia, on the other hand Letrozole does have studies and usage data to substantiate the claims it actually shrinks gyno by starving the tissue of estrogen and causing a remission. YES the gland will always be there and will flare up if hormonal levels are disrupted but AI's are the way forward in combating gyno.

The only way to completely rid yourself of it is ofcourse surgery, SERMS will only inhibit binding to the estrogen receptors in the chest, but I have noticed that it is more effective at reducing the puffiness.

Femara users report breast size reduction as one of the common side effects of its usage in combating breast cancer.


#13

Really? when the SERM by its very nature only inibits estrogen binding to the chest receptors. For Gyno to reduce, estrogen needs to reduce. Letrozole is proven to decrease estrogen by up to 80-90%.

Mandava U, Kirma N, Tekmal RR conducted an interesting study which proved that AI's effectively combat Gynomastia by shrinking it, SERMS are useful in PCT to stop any potential binding but they are useless are reducing the growth once it's there.


#14

Hmm .

I ran a dbol cycle once and got gyno. I had already purchased Letro and Clomid. But decided not to use any of it despite my gyno. I just monitored it and it didnt get any worse. Half a year after the end of my cycle the gyno dissapeared all by itself. I was amazed. So dont worry. In some cases the gyno dissapears by itself.