T Nation

Let Me Be Your Bulking Experiment

       Alright fellas, I'm young (19) but consider myself about average in terms of lifting, program knowledge, blah blah etc etc.....but I need help on my diet big time. I don't know what my hub says but I'm 208-210 on any given day, down from 214 from before christmas break.  I'm fairly tall and feel like I need to look 230+ to look good, I don't know whether to go on a dirty bulk, or just keep it clean, or use something that someone thought of.  

I did this the best I could http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/twelve-steps-to-getting-big/ , I’m not gonna lie and say I ate every one of those things everyday. I did this for a little over a week, it’s obviously definitely not a long term plan. Help a brother out, cost isn’t any issue within reason, time shouldn’t be an issue, but cooking skill is.

grilled/baked cbicken
steak
lots of water
turkey
veggies/fruits
lots of nuts
fish oil and multi-vitamin
lots of milk
oatmeal
PB&J
lots of eggs
2-4 scoops of whey with milk,peanut butter,oats,honey,and a banana after a workout ( fuckin delicious by the way )

and a solid workout. If you lift good and have most of those foods every day you’ll be fine

For my postworkout shake, I had a half galloon of chocolate milk and I shit you not, I was on the crapper 6 times from 9-12 last night

[quote]chobbs wrote:
I don’t know whether to go on a dirty bulk, or just keep it clean, or use something that someone thought of.
[/quote]

Dude let me tell you about the kind of dirty bulking that shitty article is talking about (I only scanned over it for about half a second and immediately closed it after I started reading things like whole pizza and entire packet of bacon).

It works. You’ll get big fast and if you don’t have the best genetics you will probably get fat as shit too.

Let me tell you what sucks. This kind of eating is not sustainable nor is it conducive to growing muscle for the rest of your life. Although I cannot prove it I feel eating with this mentality is exactly what wrecked my endocrine system so while I got bigger really fast I’m spending awfully long time back tracking and trying to get healthy so I can be optimal in and out of the gym like I was a couple years ago.

Eat clean 80-90% of the time, count your calories/macros and bulk within reason.

What is eating clean?
Everyone has different definitions and others will say there is no such thing.

In my opinion eating clean is:

  1. The majority of your food grows out of the ground. (IMO plant based diets rule, I’m not saying go vegan or vegetarian just that you should be eating tons of vegetables along with some potatoes, rice and such.)
  2. Avoiding highly processed shit, like cheese its and poptarts.
  3. Avoiding transfats
  4. That is all I can really think of off the top of my head.

I said eat clean 80-90% of the time this means that you still have cheat days and eat garbage every now and again. Because lets be honest this shit is amazing and you still want to have some sort of a social life so every now and again have a few slices of pizza when you’re out with the boys or a burger.

Personally though on my cheat days I like to eat as many nutrients and vegetables as possible that I don’t normally eat on a regular basis since I eat the same things every day. So I’ll start a cheat day off with a couple plates of salad and mixed veggies then close out with a steak and sweet potato or fries or something rather than going to McDonalds and eating nothing but shit that definitely doesn’t belong in my body.

my advice isn’t really geared towards a 19 year old kid but I’d keep it in mind and try to work towards it just by simply adding a new vegetable or fruit to your diet every few weeks or make it a point to eat something green and leafy with every meal and eventually over years the idea is that you will be consuming a ballin’ ass diet.

I hate all of these percentages.

I cook most of my food. It is still hard as hell for me to gain while eatuing just like I do when losing body fat.

Today, I will likely go through about 2lbs of beef. I will also likely eat a mini-pizza also. Considering the overall calories, Totinos ain’t doing shit but helping.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I hate all of these percentages.

I cook most of my food. It is still hard as hell for me to gain while eatuing just like I do when losing body fat.

Today, I will likely go through about 2lbs of beef. I will also likely eat a mini-pizza also. Considering the overall calories, Totinos ain’t doing shit but helping.[/quote]

no love for the red baron?

[quote]corstijeir wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I hate all of these percentages.

I cook most of my food. It is still hard as hell for me to gain while eatuing just like I do when losing body fat.

Today, I will likely go through about 2lbs of beef. I will also likely eat a mini-pizza also. Considering the overall calories, Totinos ain’t doing shit but helping.[/quote]

no love for the red baron?[/quote]

Little love.

I honestly go more by “calories” when it comes to what I add into what I eat past what I cook.

I know my day would be low on carbs otherwise.

Most of the times it may be rice…but what I don’t want is a newb going by “90% clean”. It means nothing to a newb. Some guy eating 6 meals a day could pull off “90%” while still eating at Pizza Hut daily.

Not only that, but guys with super fast metabolisms probably shouldn’t try eating the same as guys with slower metabolisms.

You sure as hell won’t learn your own limitations if you ASSUME them right off the bat.

[quote]paulieserafini wrote:

[quote]chobbs wrote:
I don’t know whether to go on a dirty bulk, or just keep it clean, or use something that someone thought of.
[/quote]

Dude let me tell you about the kind of dirty bulking that shitty article is talking about (I only scanned over it for about half a second and immediately closed it after I started reading things like whole pizza and entire packet of bacon).

It works. You’ll get big fast and if you don’t have the best genetics you will probably get fat as shit too.

Let me tell you what sucks. This kind of eating is not sustainable nor is it conducive to growing muscle for the rest of your life. Although I cannot prove it I feel eating with this mentality is exactly what wrecked my endocrine system so while I got bigger really fast I’m spending awfully long time back tracking and trying to get healthy so I can be optimal in and out of the gym like I was a couple years ago.

Eat clean 80-90% of the time, count your calories/macros and bulk within reason.

What is eating clean?
Everyone has different definitions and others will say there is no such thing.

In my opinion eating clean is:

  1. The majority of your food grows out of the ground. (IMO plant based diets rule, I’m not saying go vegan or vegetarian just that you should be eating tons of vegetables along with some potatoes, rice and such.)
  2. Avoiding highly processed shit, like cheese its and poptarts.
  3. Avoiding transfats
  4. That is all I can really think of off the top of my head.

I said eat clean 80-90% of the time this means that you still have cheat days and eat garbage every now and again. Because lets be honest this shit is amazing and you still want to have some sort of a social life so every now and again have a few slices of pizza when you’re out with the boys or a burger.

Personally though on my cheat days I like to eat as many nutrients and vegetables as possible that I don’t normally eat on a regular basis since I eat the same things every day. So I’ll start a cheat day off with a couple plates of salad and mixed veggies then close out with a steak and sweet potato or fries or something rather than going to McDonalds and eating nothing but shit that definitely doesn’t belong in my body.

my advice isn’t really geared towards a 19 year old kid but I’d keep it in mind and try to work towards it just by simply adding a new vegetable or fruit to your diet every few weeks or make it a point to eat something green and leafy with every meal and eventually over years the idea is that you will be consuming a ballin’ ass diet.[/quote]
I can’t argue with your avi, but why the emphasis on vegetables, small amounts of calories, and they make you feel full. Why not oatmeal or rice?

@Professor X, How many carbs do you shoot for daily?

[quote]chobbs wrote:
@Professor X, How many carbs do you shoot for daily?[/quote]

I don’t.

I am about 250-255 right now. I can give “estimates” of what I eat, but I am not shooting for any number unless I am being really strict DIETING.

Gaining, I am going by the scale and what I see in the mirror and the gym.

If I didn’t literally force myself, I would undereat carbs. That is one reason I do eat the food I eat and why some might consider that cheating.

It works. That is all I care about.

[quote]chobbs wrote:

[quote]paulieserafini wrote:

[quote]chobbs wrote:
I don’t know whether to go on a dirty bulk, or just keep it clean, or use something that someone thought of.
[/quote]

Dude let me tell you about the kind of dirty bulking that shitty article is talking about (I only scanned over it for about half a second and immediately closed it after I started reading things like whole pizza and entire packet of bacon).

It works. You’ll get big fast and if you don’t have the best genetics you will probably get fat as shit too.

Let me tell you what sucks. This kind of eating is not sustainable nor is it conducive to growing muscle for the rest of your life. Although I cannot prove it I feel eating with this mentality is exactly what wrecked my endocrine system so while I got bigger really fast I’m spending awfully long time back tracking and trying to get healthy so I can be optimal in and out of the gym like I was a couple years ago.

Eat clean 80-90% of the time, count your calories/macros and bulk within reason.

What is eating clean?
Everyone has different definitions and others will say there is no such thing.

In my opinion eating clean is:

  1. The majority of your food grows out of the ground. (IMO plant based diets rule, I’m not saying go vegan or vegetarian just that you should be eating tons of vegetables along with some potatoes, rice and such.)
  2. Avoiding highly processed shit, like cheese its and poptarts.
  3. Avoiding transfats
  4. That is all I can really think of off the top of my head.

I said eat clean 80-90% of the time this means that you still have cheat days and eat garbage every now and again. Because lets be honest this shit is amazing and you still want to have some sort of a social life so every now and again have a few slices of pizza when you’re out with the boys or a burger.

Personally though on my cheat days I like to eat as many nutrients and vegetables as possible that I don’t normally eat on a regular basis since I eat the same things every day. So I’ll start a cheat day off with a couple plates of salad and mixed veggies then close out with a steak and sweet potato or fries or something rather than going to McDonalds and eating nothing but shit that definitely doesn’t belong in my body.

my advice isn’t really geared towards a 19 year old kid but I’d keep it in mind and try to work towards it just by simply adding a new vegetable or fruit to your diet every few weeks or make it a point to eat something green and leafy with every meal and eventually over years the idea is that you will be consuming a ballin’ ass diet.[/quote]
I can’t argue with your avi, but why the emphasis on vegetables, small amounts of calories, and they make you feel full. Why not oatmeal or rice?
[/quote]

Veggies can raise your insulin sensitivity. That essentially means that you are utilizing your carbs better and storing less fat because of it.

To sort of echo what X is saying, once you know your “baseline” amount of food/macros, it is much easier to tweak in the future. That being said, while bulking, you can definitely be more relaxed on what food you are taking in. I’m not telling you to eat shit regularly, but if you are already force feeding yourself multiple times a day for weeks and not making gains, you might need to smash some pizza on occasion.

EDIT: Taking a GDA will also help increase insulin sensitivity.

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

To sort of echo what X is saying, once you know your “baseline” amount of food/macros, it is much easier to tweak in the future. That being said, while bulking, you can definitely be more relaxed on what food you are taking in. [/quote]

Agreed. The goal is to enjoy yourself…because getting swole will take a few years for most people. Find some balance in how you eat…but worrying about getting it exactly “85-90%” right is going to confuse some people.

I slowly learned what I could and could not eat. No one can follow a template without seeing how they respond.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

To sort of echo what X is saying, once you know your “baseline” amount of food/macros, it is much easier to tweak in the future. That being said, while bulking, you can definitely be more relaxed on what food you are taking in. [/quote]

Agreed. The goal is to enjoy yourself…because getting swole will take a few years for most people. Find some balance in how you eat…but worrying about getting it exactly “85-90%” right is going to confuse some people.

I slowly learned what I could and could not eat. No one can follow a template without seeing how they respond.[/quote]

Right. Instead of worrying about a %, just make sure you’re eating what you’re suppose to most of the time. That means something different to each individual, and that’s sort of the point. When I was cutting last year, I was able to eat an entire large pizza once a week and still lose bf weekly. Does this work for everyone? Of course not. Templates are a great place to start, but everyone will need to adjust them according to themselves.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

Not only that, but guys with super fast metabolisms probably shouldn’t try eating the same as guys with slower metabolisms.

[/quote]

I didn’t take this into consideration. For a guy like me where 4000 calories is way too much for even a bulk my ideals would be easier. It truly sucks though because I can and want to eat constantly and not being stuffed full of food leaves me feeling unsatisfied, I’m a bottomless pit with a slow/regular metabolism.

That article was dumb though. It was nothing but shit all day long without consideration of micronutrients or even the slightest concern for health.
I know we all want to get huge as fast as possible, but imo nothing is more important than health.

@the op I did include rice and potatoes and such (things that grow out of the ground) I think at the beginning of my diet I was eating close to 4-5 cups of rice a day if I remember correctly. The main point was to limit shit like hot pockets and mcdonalds every day.

General consensus seems like I have to find out what works for me, I’m in it for the long haul anyways so I might as well figure it out.

OP just remember the sources of the articles. That one in particular was written for aspiring powerlifters that wish to be super heavy weights. Also just about everything PL related is going to assume your using heavy AAS which helps us cram/eat/consume/digest/expend and shit out at a much faster pace.

I go by this, if a roll of Tpee last me for more than a day and a half Im not eating enough.

^Great point, I would like to be strong, but “bodybuilding” comes before that, and I need to get to a decent weight before any of these things

So stick with a bulking program that suits your goals. I consider BB the same as PL in the aspect that its a marathon not a sprint. For you, good steady quality gains will be best served in the long run. Find a descent bulking diet and aim for a pound of LBM a week. If in a month you added 4 lbs of mass with low fat addition, increase calories until you find your optimum bulk while keeping fat gains at a tolerable rate. 4-6lbs a month is manageable and well within your wheel house at your size and height. Sure a dirty bulk for 2-3 weeks will get you there faster but the end product will will be quantity not quality.

Diet should be tightly related to your training and what you lift. And I mean, the poundage, relative to your own weight

Not the same when you squat 55175 than when you squat 55300…

That’s why a beginner eating whole pizzas every day of the week will probably end mad fat

[quote]chobbs wrote:
Alright fellas, I’m young (19) but consider myself about average in terms of lifting, program knowledge, blah blah etc etc…but I need help on my diet big time. I don’t know what my hub says but I’m 208-210 on any given day, down from 214 from before christmas break. I’m fairly tall and feel like I need to look 230+ to look good, I don’t know whether to go on a dirty bulk, or just keep it clean, or use something that someone thought of.

I did this the best I could http://articles.elitefts.com/training-articles/twelve-steps-to-getting-big/ , I’m not gonna lie and say I ate every one of those things everyday. I did this for a little over a week, it’s obviously definitely not a long term plan. Help a brother out, cost isn’t any issue within reason, time shouldn’t be an issue, but cooking skill is.[/quote]

Haven’t read what the others wrote, but I recommend reading up what Shelby wrote.

I think the easiest way is to shoot for a given rate of weight gain per week (0.5 to 2 lbs or so), monitor your weight weekly, and then simply adjust how much you eat accordingly (eat more or less). How much weight gain per week you are comfortable with is partly personal, but if the goal is bulking it should be more than zero mostly I think. More than 2 lbs every week might be a bit too fast but who knows. Then stop the bulk when you get too fat (a personal thing again within reason) and maintain or drop some fat, and repeat. Clarify what “too fat” means for you in advance so you don’t fuck it up. For example, Shelby looks at the love handles/lower back area.