T Nation

Less of a Physique?

Since all this Steroid talk has popped up again in the BB forum, I was wondered do guys on this site who have built a pretty good physique view people who have taken steroids with less of a “physique”?

Lets 200Lbs relatively lean on a guy who is 5’ 10", alot people strive for a physique like that. It can be achieved natural or steroids(duh), if you had that physique natty do you feel like that guy has achieved ‘less’ then you at all?

I’m not one of the big guys here who has that freedom, of course. lol

But I relate it in this way:

In art school my roommate John was a great painter. Realism was his forte, and his forms were always perfect when he copied a photograph. However, he got a lot of criticism for using an overhead projector to trace his images before he painted them.

One day one of my other roommates challenged him to draw freehand, so he did. We watched as John painstakingly copied the photo of a child freehand. When he was done, we put the photo into the projector and projected the photo onto John’s drawing and we were stunned to see that all John’s lines matched the contours of the child in the photo!

John’s defense was that since he had the ability to copy a photo so accurately freehanded, why not save time and just trace it?

THAT’S how I view steroid users. The drugs won’t make you a bodybuilder - YOU need to do the work for that. They just speed things along.

lol

I’ve known way too many gym rats who partake of PEDs and still don’t build impressive physiques to ever attribute them as the maker or breaker of an impressive musculature.

S

Stu is bang on as always.

I work in a supplement store and we get a LOT of people coming in and talking about steroids. I’d say only about 20% of them even look like they train

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
Stu is bang on as always.

I work in a supplement store and we get a LOT of people coming in and talking about steroids. I’d say only about 20% of them even look like they train[/quote]

Which reiterates my previous point: The drugs won’t make you a bodybuilder.

I’ll add to that…
Drugs won’t make you a bodybuilder, but you can be a bodybuilder without drugs.

:slight_smile:

If you dont have what it takes to build an impressive natty body then needles and pills wont do shit for you.

I see any person who has a nad ass body lean or not…obvious drug use or not and all i can do is respect the work put in

How can you not respect it?

I find it funny that there seem to be 2 types of people with equally short-sighted viewpoints on this issue:

1.) Those people who seem to believe that AAS/PEDs will be like magic no matter what you do (diet, training, consistency etc.).

2.) Those people who never really acknowledge that AAS/PEDs can be like magic IF some BASIC conditions are met (diet, training, consistency etc.).

It seems there are a lot of people of the second type on here. The evidence that there are a lot of fuckwits using AAS and never get anywhere (see the AAS subforum), is NOT worth a whole lot.

OP: Surely AAS/PED use should be factored in when giving somebody honest props for their achievements. The natty guy should get more props than the assisted guy for the same achievements, ceteris paribus.

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
I find it funny that there seem to be 2 types of people with equally short-sighted viewpoints on this issue:

1.) Those people who seem to believe that AAS/PEDs will be like magic no matter what you do (diet, training, consistency etc.).

2.) Those people who never really acknowledge that AAS/PEDs can be like magic IF some BASIC conditions are met (diet, training, consistency etc.).

It seems there are a lot of people of the second type on here. The evidence that there are a lot of fuckwits using AAS and never get anywhere (see the AAS subforum), is NOT worth a whole lot.

OP: Surely AAS/PED use should be factored in when giving somebody honest props for their achievements. The natty guy should get more props than the assisted guy for the same achievements, ceteris paribus.[/quote]

Have to say I pretty much agree with this.

However, the one thing that really throws the wrench into the equation, is genetics. Take two people who have similarly impressive levels of musculature and leanness, one of them who has taken steroids and one who is completely natural. You would want to give way more “props” to the natural guy, because you would assume he has worked much much harder to achieve that (although they have both obviously worked hard). However, if the natural guy was genetically elite and the assisted guy had shit genetics, that could be just as much of an advantage. Maybe the genetically gifted guy has actually worked harder than the natural guy, even with taking steroids, to achieve the same level.

The point is, there are so many variables that it’s hard to judge. However, of course drugs are a huge advantage, and I do think it’s silly to discount that (and disrespectful to natties like Stu who’ve built amazing physiques without such an advantage).

[quote]Ct. Rockula wrote:
If you dont have what it takes to build an impressive natty body then needles and pills wont do shit for you.

I see any person who has a nad ass body lean or not…obvious drug use or not and all i can do is respect the work put in

How can you not respect it?
[/quote]

my thoughts exactly

[quote]infinite_shore wrote:
I find it funny that there seem to be 2 types of people with equally short-sighted viewpoints on this issue:

1.) Those people who seem to believe that AAS/PEDs will be like magic no matter what you do (diet, training, consistency etc.).

2.) Those people who never really acknowledge that AAS/PEDs can be like magic IF some BASIC conditions are met (diet, training, consistency etc.).
[/quote]

I don’t think anyone is disputing point number 2. I mean obviously you’ll get badass results adding gear to good diet, training and consistency. Where has anyone said different?

erm…

well anyways, as a steroid user, i can say that you never understand the power of steroids until you use them yourself.

when i began my first cycle, an average dose of testosterone, i thought i was going to get massive AND very lean at the same time… i grossly overestimated it’s power.

that being said, the combination of steroids/hgh/insulin (which is of course, more powerful than steroids) is indeed an incredible thing… not that i would know.

i’ve made up my mind that i will never touch insulin or hgh… i can get the body i want with just steroids, my goals are rather modest.

i will say that steroids are not nearly as dangerous as people are led to believe… not really dangerous at all in fact.

I’ve never personally understood someone who wasn’t pushing to become a pro BBer or chasing a national powerlifting ranking would use.

I train because I love training and want to make myself better, for no one but me. And using, to me, has always seemed like little more than a way to keep up with the Jones’.

I’m satisfied with my training, my progress, and where I am. I don’t think something like steroids could make that happen for someone.

Lifting is a lifelong process as far as I’m concerned. I’m going to do it until something forces me to not be able to. I don’t see the point in taking a shortcut when I’m enjoying the ride.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I’ve never personally understood someone who wasn’t pushing to become a pro BBer or chasing a national powerlifting ranking would use.

I train because I love training and want to make myself better, for no one but me. And using, to me, has always seemed like little more than a way to keep up with the Jones’.

I’m satisfied with my training, my progress, and where I am. I don’t think something like steroids could make that happen for someone.

Lifting is a lifelong process as far as I’m concerned. I’m going to do it until something forces me to not be able to. I don’t see the point in taking a shortcut when I’m enjoying the ride.[/quote]

life is short, and youth is even shorter, so take shortcuts.

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I’ve never personally understood someone who wasn’t pushing to become a pro BBer or chasing a national powerlifting ranking would use.

I train because I love training and want to make myself better, for no one but me. And using, to me, has always seemed like little more than a way to keep up with the Jones’.

I’m satisfied with my training, my progress, and where I am. I don’t think something like steroids could make that happen for someone.

Lifting is a lifelong process as far as I’m concerned. I’m going to do it until something forces me to not be able to. I don’t see the point in taking a shortcut when I’m enjoying the ride.[/quote]

life is short, and youth is even shorter, so take shortcuts.

[/quote]

I have to agree with mr Walkaway.

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I’ve never personally understood someone who wasn’t pushing to become a pro BBer or chasing a national powerlifting ranking would use.

I train because I love training and want to make myself better, for no one but me. And using, to me, has always seemed like little more than a way to keep up with the Jones’.

I’m satisfied with my training, my progress, and where I am. I don’t think something like steroids could make that happen for someone.

Lifting is a lifelong process as far as I’m concerned. I’m going to do it until something forces me to not be able to. I don’t see the point in taking a shortcut when I’m enjoying the ride.[/quote]

life is short, and youth is even shorter, so take shortcuts.

[/quote]

And miss the scenery?

I didn’t mean to say there is anything wrong with it. I think they should be legal. I don’t care what anyone else does. Just mentally don’t get it.

You can only really take shortcuts if you have a final destination. I don’t.

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:
well anyways, as a steroid user, i can say that you never understand the power of steroids until you use them yourself.

when i began my first cycle, an average dose of testosterone, i thought i was going to get massive AND very lean at the same time… i grossly overestimated it’s power.

that being said, the combination of steroids/hgh/insulin (which is of course, more powerful than steroids) is indeed an incredible thing… not that i would know.

i’ve made up my mind that i will never touch insulin or hgh… i can get the body i want with just steroids, my goals are rather modest.

i will say that steroids are not nearly as dangerous as people are led to believe… not really dangerous at all in fact.[/quote]

I agree with everything in this post

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I’ve never personally understood someone who wasn’t pushing to become a pro BBer or chasing a national powerlifting ranking would use.

I train because I love training and want to make myself better, for no one but me. And using, to me, has always seemed like little more than a way to keep up with the Jones’.

I’m satisfied with my training, my progress, and where I am. I don’t think something like steroids could make that happen for someone.

Lifting is a lifelong process as far as I’m concerned. I’m going to do it until something forces me to not be able to. I don’t see the point in taking a shortcut when I’m enjoying the ride.[/quote]

life is short, and youth is even shorter, so take shortcuts.

[/quote]

And miss the scenery?

I didn’t mean to say there is anything wrong with it. I think they should be legal. I don’t care what anyone else does. Just mentally don’t get it.

You can only really take shortcuts if you have a final destination. I don’t. [/quote]

nothing is missed

let me put it this way, opportunities that would not have been available to me prior to my aas usage (e.g. fitness modeling) are now available to me.

i don’t have a destination either, but why not get paid to do what you love to do?

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I’ve never personally understood someone who wasn’t pushing to become a pro BBer or chasing a national powerlifting ranking would use.

I train because I love training and want to make myself better, for no one but me. And using, to me, has always seemed like little more than a way to keep up with the Jones’.

I’m satisfied with my training, my progress, and where I am. I don’t think something like steroids could make that happen for someone.

Lifting is a lifelong process as far as I’m concerned. I’m going to do it until something forces me to not be able to. I don’t see the point in taking a shortcut when I’m enjoying the ride.[/quote]

life is short, and youth is even shorter, so take shortcuts.

[/quote]

And miss the scenery?

I didn’t mean to say there is anything wrong with it. I think they should be legal. I don’t care what anyone else does. Just mentally don’t get it.

You can only really take shortcuts if you have a final destination. I don’t. [/quote]

nothing is missed

let me put it this way, opportunities that would not have been available to me prior to my aas usage (e.g. fitness modeling) are now available to me.

i don’t have a destination either, but why not get paid to do what you love to do?[/quote]

I think I can get to underwear model without. =0)

I’m not getting paid for it with or without.

And you can’t say you don’t miss anything, you wouldn’t know, caused you’d have missed it.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
I’ve never personally understood someone who wasn’t pushing to become a pro BBer or chasing a national powerlifting ranking would use.

I train because I love training and want to make myself better, for no one but me. And using, to me, has always seemed like little more than a way to keep up with the Jones’.

I’m satisfied with my training, my progress, and where I am. I don’t think something like steroids could make that happen for someone.

Lifting is a lifelong process as far as I’m concerned. I’m going to do it until something forces me to not be able to. I don’t see the point in taking a shortcut when I’m enjoying the ride.[/quote]

strongly agree with this whole post.