Legit 405lbs x 20 Squats?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
21

I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that 405X20 is “really fucking strong.” I think it’s safe to say that a lot of world class strength athletes would be seeing spots after 405X20.

Matt Kroc has posted in his logs that he did 405X20 when he was having an “off day.” But this is a world-class powerlifter having an “off-day.” Of course, since he’s a powerlifter he’s really more suited to just lift really heavy weights one time.

Tom Platz not only did that crazy 500X23 set but also reportedly Squatted 315 for 50 reps.
But using Tom Platz as the standard for what’s a difficult squat set and what is just as crazy as using Kirk Karwowski’s 1000X2 as a standard for what is and isn’t impressive. Tom Platz is also probably the best high-rep squatter in all of high-rep squatting history (if that makes any sense). And if he’s not he’s very colse.

Are 90% of lifters non capable of a 405X20 Squat set? When do you become a real weightlifter? Because from what I’ve seen 90% of the people who step into the ‘average’ gym can’t even squat 225X20.

22

[quote]Affliction wrote:
Justin Harris. Very legit depth.

[/quote]

He handles 405 very well…

Here’s Kevin Tolbert:

23

This was answered Matt Kroc:

Currently my best high rep sets in the narrow stance ass on heels style are:

545x10,440x17,405x20 and of course the 40 rep drop set which was comprised of 500x8,405x8,315x8,225x8 and 135x8

I have been hitting the 405x20 pretty easily at the end of a training session and I was talking to one of my training partners about trying for 405x25 soon which I am pretty certain I have in me. Maybe I’ll try that soon and tape it or do it the next time I go down to elite.

He is a elite level powerlifter and he has a squat of 926lb at 220lb and has hit 1k before. Therefore most people wont ever reach that level of strength.

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www.marunde-muscle.com/videos.html

Video’s 21 & 28

25

[quote]matso1236 wrote:
This was answered Matt Kroc:

Currently my best high rep sets in the narrow stance ass on heels style are:

545x10,440x17,405x20 and of course the 40 rep drop set which was comprised of 500x8,405x8,315x8,225x8 and 135x8

I have been hitting the 405x20 pretty easily at the end of a training session and I was talking to one of my training partners about trying for 405x25 soon which I am pretty certain I have in me. Maybe I’ll try that soon and tape it or do it the next time I go down to elite.

He is a elite level powerlifter and he has a squat of 926lb at 220lb. Therefore most people wont ever reach that level of strength.[/quote]

Sounds brutal… The reason I brought up Kevin Tolbert is because he was supposedly natural, and I have never heard of anyone approaching that high a weight for such high reps. From what I have read, it was a peak performance, since anything above 500 caused pain in his knees. He was so strong he normally had to pre-exhaust on a leg press first, and then do full squats with 500 pounds. He was a strength & conditioning coach at Michigan, now in the NFL I believe.

From Dr. Ken:

"…There was never a big
push, just constant progression over twelve
years or so until he could do 600x30.
Anything over 500-550 hurt his knees a lot so
we usually kept it there and wouldpre exhaust
with leg press or at times, squat 500x20, no
rest to leg press all out x20, back to squat
with no rest and the 500 then for 15-20-30 or
whatever he would get would be a true all
oout set. That was the safest way for us to
do it. Re: diet, he ate and used milk and egg
protein powder in whole milk.

The tuna story
is good and I’ll sign off with it: for the
last three years of high school, I would make
8 (eight) tuna sandwiches for Kevin with the
rule: “don’t give any away, don’t throw any
out, don’t bring any home”. Thus, he would
sit in class, walk the halls of Malverne HS,
and eat constantly. It helped him gain weight
and added protein to his diet. To this day he
doesn’t eat tuna fish! Nothing exotic, just
basic stuff. I hope this is helpful to you.

Oh yeah, Trigg and Steve Baldwin saw quite a
few slides of Kevin at the seminar I
participated in this summer and they could
comment if they cared to, on the progression
in his size. He didn’t start out huge, you
could see him grow steadily as he became
stronger, as expected.
Dr. Ken"

26

This guys videos are off the hook. check his channel. I think he can do it.

27

I wonder if I could right now. Theoretically I have to imagine I’d be super close. My last ME Squat session I PR’d 745 and then dropped to 605 for a rep out set where I got 8. I’d like to think 605x8 translated to 405x20 but maybe not. I’m much better with 1RM’s than rep out sets.

For the record it should be noted my effort would be enhanced by the glorious product that is my avatar. For those in the know, tren is a notorious aerobic capacity reducer. I think my legs have the strength and possible endurance for 405x20. What I would question is my lungs ability to do it. 20 rep squat sets are more about lungs IMO than thighs.

28

[quote]saps wrote:
I wonder if I could right now. Theoretically I have to imagine I’d be super close. My last ME Squat session I PR’d 745 and then dropped to 605 for a rep out set where I got 8. I’d like to think 605x8 translated to 405x20 but maybe not. I’m much better with 1RM’s than rep out sets.
For the record it should be noted my effort would be enhanced by the glorious product that is my avatar. For those in the know, tren is a notorious aerobic capacity reducer. I think my legs have the strength and possible endurance for 405x20. What I would question is my lungs ability to do it. 20 rep squat sets are more about lungs IMO than thighs.[/quote]

Yeah with those #'s I’m pretty sure you would have no problem, the weight would be very light I don’t think put to much aerobic stress on your body.

29

[quote]saps wrote:
I wonder if I could right now. Theoretically I have to imagine I’d be super close. My last ME Squat session I PR’d 745 and then dropped to 605 for a rep out set where I got 8. I’d like to think 605x8 translated to 405x20 but maybe not. I’m much better with 1RM’s than rep out sets.
For the record it should be noted my effort would be enhanced by the glorious product that is my avatar. For those in the know, tren is a notorious aerobic capacity reducer. I think my legs have the strength and possible endurance for 405x20. What I would question is my lungs ability to do it. 20 rep squat sets are more about lungs IMO than thighs.[/quote]

You can do it. You might throw up afterward though. I hear that cola can zap your wind though;^) Most I’ve done with 405 is 9 reps but no way can I squat 605 for 1 rep let alone 8. Even if you failed you’d have it in a few weeks if you trained for it.

30

Maybe, maybe guys.
Shizen sounds like you’ve never used tren before. Admittedly I’m in terrible aerobic shape but on tren I get winded from a flight of stairs.

Hagar I might try this 405 rep out on my ME day. I’m very intrigued now. Although 800x1 is much more intriguing than 405 for any number.

31

Although anyone who can get 8 w/ 605 certainly in theory shouldn’t have a huge problem w/ 20 w/ 405lbs. Casey Viator (surely a strong BB, even today) reached 500x10 following leg exts and presses.

I think leg development (size) is more about # of reps w/out a break. After all they have alot of slow twitch fiber development due to the fact we walk on them all day.

32

[quote]drip wrote:
This guys videos are off the hook. check his channel. I think he can do it.

[/quote]

Is this a joke? He can’t squat 405X20 but he’s in shape - so he doesn’t deserved to be mocked for not being close to 405X20.

33

Sorry to de-rail the thread, but can anyone tell my why all of these people seem to be doing olympic-ish looking squats instead of powerlifting squats, i.e., with the barbell resting across the rear delts, for these high rep sets?

34

FWIW, I’ve done 405x23 FULL squats, not the above parallel stuff you see in the gym. It was a couple years ago, bwt of 220lbs.
No vids, but observed by about 15 friends/onlookers at a major Gold’s gym. Yes, it was tough, bar was on my back for approx 5+ minutes. Trying to breathe is the worst part.

This isn’t particularly earth-shattering, but nowadays with most trainees doing only token leg work, and the avg BB forum reader being 175 and trying to “get cut”, I suppose it seems unattainable.
Someone may have mentioned this before, but Dr. Ken has done the same thing at around 155-165lbs and around 50 years old.

35

You also have to consider how the reps are done, if a person has a slight pause at the top of every rep makes a huge difference from continous 20 reps. Either way its strong, but just a big diffrence.

^^
Good question, maybe it’s because powerlifters refuse to do high rep squats.

36

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
You also have to consider how the reps are done, if a person has a slight pause at the top of every rep makes a huge difference from continous 20 reps. Either way its strong, but just a big diffrence.

^^
Good question, maybe it’s because powerlifters refuse to do high rep squats.[/quote]

^ Thats exactly right! Arthur Jones permitted NO rest until Sergio hit failure, then he would drop the wieght some and Sergio would again go w/no rest in the lockout till failure.

For most purposes its in the trainees best interest to proceed w/ NO rest till failure or near failure. Hell, Mark Berry espoused basically the same thing back in 1933.

37

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
You also have to consider how the reps are done, if a person has a slight pause at the top of every rep makes a huge difference from continous 20 reps. Either way its strong, but just a big diffrence.

^^
Good question, maybe it’s because powerlifters refuse to do high rep squats.[/quote]

If it’s truly an all-out effort, you absolutely will have to periodically pause and take some breaths if your goal is to achieve the maximum number of reps attainable.
Otherwise, I suppose we’re now discussing the old Nautilus training methods…

FYI, not all powerlifters refuse to do high-rep squats. I often included them for a few weeks during a training cycle to elevate work capacity and general “toughness”.

My 405x23 was indeed done low-bar relatively wide stance. The “olympic” style squat generally causes too much cervical strain and excessive flexion in the knees, limiting most trainees to what their low-back can tolerate.

38

No, thats why I referred to Mark Berry. Arthur Jones freely admits he didn’t invent high rep squats and wished he had. Look up JC Hise, he was doing them before Arthur Jones was 12 yrs old. Milo Steinborn was doing them in like 1922 so hi-rep squats are far from “old Nautilus training” altho Sergio Oliva nor Casey Viator NEVER looked better than when AJ trained them.

39

Rad
What is/was your degree of muscular development shortly after doing 405x23? I ask becuz that is a very impressive level of strength which few, very few attain.

I assume Sergio did his high back and relatively close stance w/ NO belt, NO wraps and I’m sure NO suit. Did you?

It didn’t help having probably the best trainer there ever was and will be…Arthur Jones.

40

[quote]derek wrote:
www.marunde-muscle.com/videos.html

Video’s 21 & 28[/quote]

Top strong man competitors are amazing to watch. I was hoping that Marunde would win the worlds strongest man one day.

It’s too bad that a workout like that actually killed the guy.