Legal Gear

Pharma / TRT
21

[quote]TrainerinDC wrote:
jjay wrote:
Personal trainer huh ? Isn’t that about one step above an honorary fireman . What’s next for you a citizen’s Arrest .
How about you get some friends together and call yourselves the -

Gym taskforce FORM police !!!

Oh wow. Thank you for proving my point about your stupidity. Even if I didn’t require help.

You may dislike my chosen career, but at least I have a brain. This is more than I can say for you.

Lets change focus. Please Jjay go take prohormones. PCT and all that other crap is just that, crap. You can stay on 24/7/365. So do it bro, and go get huge.

So when he has bitch tits and is completely sterile, he can’t reproduce and there aren’t little Jjay’s harassing us 18 years from now[/quote]

To late for that !!!

22

[quote]CrewPierce wrote:
Why do people keep saying that AAS have been tested in humans and thus are safer?
Yes some have been tested in humans, but others are only meant for cattle.
The ones that have been tested and used for human use are only used in the extremely sick. Almost all steroids that bodybuilders and powerlifters alike abuse are meant for people suffering from AIDS or Cancer. Breast cancer patients that have to shut off all estrogen, because estrogen triggers the cancer cells, use the same drugs people use for PCT and anti-E.

These people are already sick and the side effects are of little threat to their health in comparison to what they are already facing. These drugs were 1) never intended for healthy humans and 2) were not intended at the dosage many take them at.
AAS in my opinion are no safer than prohormones. Both have their risks and are different risks, but one is not safer than the other. It seems more likely how someone reacts to one or the other make forms his or her ideas as to what is safer.

To sum up my views, unless you are an AIDS patient needing to up your strength at all cost to survive or a breast cancer patient needing to shut off your estrogen receptors so you do not develop new cancer cells, AAS is not tested and proven safe for your use.[/quote]

Exactly Crewpierce,It’s called denial !

25

Well… I just recently got my hands on masterdrol …Im currently 21yo 5-11 170lbs. After one week of taken as directed I have gained 15 lbs I went from 155 to 170. My bench went from 315 to 335(After one chest workout)… Oh yeah forgot to mention those reps were the top of my pyrimid workout not my raw max… So my lower back aches a little… DAMN kidney’s… This stuff works. Im proof. I’ll post again when I finish each week. (along with any other side effects)

26

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
CrewPierce wrote:
These drugs were 1) never intended for healthy humans .

But you have NSAIDs, which were designed for otherwise healthy people seeking a little pain relief or anti-inflammatory results. Yet these drugs (aspirin, ibuprofen etc) kill more North American people through gastric bleeding, then die each year of the AIDS virus. My point is that it’s all shades of gray, not black and white. Risk to reward and all that…[/quote]

I would rather argue that it’s all about using the proper dosage. Many of the people who die from painkillers have been taking excessive amounts for way to long. That point exemplifies my point of drugs must be used for the intended people, at the correct dosage. ASS use does not meet either of those two.

27

[quote]mheide1 wrote:
Well… I just recently got my hands on masterdrol …Im currently 21yo 5-11 170lbs. After one week of taken as directed I have gained 15 lbs I went from 155 to 170. My bench went from 315 to 335(After one chest workout)… Oh yeah forgot to mention those reps were the top of my pyrimid workout not my raw max… So my lower back aches a little… DAMN kidney’s… This stuff works. Im proof. I’ll post again when I finish each week. (along with any other side effects)[/quote]

So on your first week of use, you pushed your bench weight up 20 pounds? How can you say that this isn’t placebo effect? Furthermore at 5’11 155 to 170 could be very easily done with food and without prohormones. 5’11 170 is still pretty small.

By the way, I hope you’re ready for the estrogen rebound and the other negative effects of coming off masterdrol. Do you have your nolva ready? Oh, and as soon as you stop taking it, your strength will plummet. When you’re last bench set is back to 250, I won’t say I told ya so.

28

JJJ, you are living in a dreamworld. I was respectful in your other post because I underestimated your ignorance. No one will be ‘ok’ on legal PCT with these prohormones because they are real steroids. Steroids with worse sides that are more liver toxic. You have some gall to go on a diatribe against steroids with next to no knowledge. You, who has abused MAG-10. You, who thinks legal steroids are safe. You, with no thought to what how the body actually responds to these chemicals and substances but only to the legality the FDA has gotten around to giving them. AT THIS POINT. You, who totally fails to acknowledge how dangerous these prohormones can be and, whatever the risks of illegal steroids are, how these are worse. Honestly, it’s like a fat, 200lb cow devouring box after box of fat-free snackwells preaching aganst the evils of dietary fat to all who would listen to her.

29

[quote]CrewPierce wrote:
Why do people keep saying that AAS have been tested in humans and thus are safer?
Yes some have been tested in humans, but others are only meant for cattle.
The ones that have been tested and used for human use are only used in the extremely sick. Almost all steroids that bodybuilders and powerlifters alike abuse are meant for people suffering from AIDS or Cancer. Breast cancer patients that have to shut off all estrogen, because estrogen triggers the cancer cells, use the same drugs people use for PCT and anti-E.

These people are already sick and the side effects are of little threat to their health in comparison to what they are already facing. These drugs were 1) never intended for healthy humans and 2) were not intended at the dosage many take them at.
AAS in my opinion are no safer than prohormones. Both have their risks and are different risks, but one is not safer than the other. It seems more likely how someone reacts to one or the other make forms his or her ideas as to what is safer.

To sum up my views, unless you are an AIDS patient needing to up your strength at all cost to survive or a breast cancer patient needing to shut off your estrogen receptors so you do not develop new cancer cells, AAS is not tested and proven safe for your use.[/quote]

Fair enough. A valid viewpoint. But these designer steroids/prohormones are that much worse. There has been no official testing. They’re not used for HRT. However, there are a few things we do know: a. they are extremely liver toxic and place a great strain on the body, more than many/most illegal steroids. b. legal PCT has been shown to be ineffective at reestablishing normal hormone levels and health in numerous, numerous indiviudals.

30

Holy crap - jjjjjjjackoff is in this thread as well?

How much stupidity is allowed to ejaculate from one person before preventive measures are taken to ensure the integerity of the board?

Boy - if you were my son I’d kick your ass just for being so damned dumb. Then I would kick it again for staying up past your bedtime.

Then I would have a paternity test done because there is no way something as stupid as you could come from my loins - unless you count the shit I took Sunday Morning.

I bet your daddy is a proud sumbitch.

31

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Holy crap - jjjjjjjackoff is in this thread as well?

How much stupidity is allowed to ejaculate from one person before preventive measures are taken to ensure the integerity of the board?

Boy - if you were my son I’d kick your ass just for being so damned dumb. Then I would kick it again for staying up past your bedtime.

Then I would have a paternity test done because there is no way something as stupid as you could come from my loins - unless you count the shit I took Sunday Morning.

I bet your daddy is a proud sumbitch. [/quote]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

32

[quote]jsbrook wrote:

Fair enough. A valid viewpoint. But these designer steroids/prohormones are that much worse. There has been no official testing. They’re not used for HRT. However, there are a few things we do know: a. they are extremely liver toxic and place a great strain on the body, more than many/most illegal steroids. b. legal PCT has been shown to be ineffective at reestablishing normal hormone levels and health in numerous, numerous indiviudals.

[/quote]

I would agree with what you said above. The legal PCT is crap and I would recommend to anyone to include something else, but that something else could be something as simple as Biotest products.

I would also agree with them being toxic, but saying they are more toxic than AAS I would have to offer that it depends on which AAS you talk about.

33

[quote]CrewPierce wrote:
jsbrook wrote:

Fair enough. A valid viewpoint. But these designer steroids/prohormones are that much worse. There has been no official testing. They’re not used for HRT. However, there are a few things we do know: a. they are extremely liver toxic and place a great strain on the body, more than many/most illegal steroids. b. legal PCT has been shown to be ineffective at reestablishing normal hormone levels and health in numerous, numerous indiviudals.

I would agree with what you said above. The legal PCT is crap and I would recommend to anyone to include something else, but that something else could be something as simple as Biotest products.

I would also agree with them being toxic, but saying they are more toxic than AAS I would have to offer that it depends on which AAS you talk about.[/quote]

No, really it couldn’t be Biotest products. Neglecting to use nolva, clomid, etc with many of these legal designer steroids… is just as likely to shoot your liver enzymes to shit, cause a huge estrogen rebound, and generally fuck with your hormones at least as much as neglecting use with many illegal steroids.

34

From my research, Masterdrol cuts off estrogen. When you come off of it, with a OTC AI, you are once again suppressing estrogen. Clomid/Nolva allows some estrogen, making it a much more effective PCT for a drug such as this. When you suppress estrogen, with the drug, then again with your pct drug, when the user thinks they are healed and good to go, they actually are not. The estrogen will then rebound causing delayed gyno, and many other symptoms men just would not want.

If any of you out there know better than I do, please chime in.

36

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
CrewPierce wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
CrewPierce wrote:
These drugs were 1) never intended for healthy humans .

But you have NSAIDs, which were designed for otherwise healthy people seeking a little pain relief or anti-inflammatory results. Yet these drugs (aspirin, ibuprofen etc) kill more North American people through gastric bleeding, then die each year of the AIDS virus. My point is that it’s all shades of gray, not black and white. Risk to reward and all that…

I would rather argue that it’s all about using the proper dosage. Many of the people who die from painkillers have been taking excessive amounts for way to long. That point exemplifies my point of drugs must be used for the intended people, at the correct dosage. ASS use does not meet either of those two.

Why must drugs be used for the intended people? Who are the “Intended people” anyway? Surely the intended person is anyone who seeks the attributes offered by a particular drug, whether that be someone seeking antioxidant properties from vitaminC, to a crackhead, looking to get skyhigh. Each drug is fulfilling its intended purpose for that user. So is it that you feel that only drugs prescribed by a medical professional are ‘intended’ for ‘proper’ use?? If so, why?

Many medical professionals are ignorant to the possibilties and benefits offered by steroid hormones. Yes they will readily prescribe contraceptive hormones, and corticosteroids, but know next to nothing about anabolic steroids. I would go so far as to say that anyone who has read the ‘Steroid Newbie Thread’ already knows more (about steroids) than a lot of medical professionals. So who should be deciding what is “Intended” use again, lol? [/quote]

Well I think with most of them the “Intended” people are the ones that are already dieing. The people that these drugs are used for in the medical profession (for the most part) are in serious risk of dieing and need help at any cost. If a person with AIDS is too weak to continue fighting off germs, then it is easier to give them Primo and deal with their hurt liver than it currently is to treat the AIDS.

As for the knowledge, I would rather think that the people who have a better understanding of the base chemicals in steriods (Doctors) know more than most on here who stop at, “OK so these 2 stack well together and then I should take this to stop the bitch tits.”

But all this is just my $0.02.

37

[quote]CrewPierce wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
CrewPierce wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
CrewPierce wrote:
These drugs were 1) never intended for healthy humans .

But you have NSAIDs, which were designed for otherwise healthy people seeking a little pain relief or anti-inflammatory results. Yet these drugs (aspirin, ibuprofen etc) kill more North American people through gastric bleeding, then die each year of the AIDS virus. My point is that it’s all shades of gray, not black and white. Risk to reward and all that…

I would rather argue that it’s all about using the proper dosage. Many of the people who die from painkillers have been taking excessive amounts for way to long. That point exemplifies my point of drugs must be used for the intended people, at the correct dosage. ASS use does not meet either of those two.

Why must drugs be used for the intended people? Who are the “Intended people” anyway? Surely the intended person is anyone who seeks the attributes offered by a particular drug, whether that be someone seeking antioxidant properties from vitaminC, to a crackhead, looking to get skyhigh. Each drug is fulfilling its intended purpose for that user. So is it that you feel that only drugs prescribed by a medical professional are ‘intended’ for ‘proper’ use?? If so, why?

Many medical professionals are ignorant to the possibilties and benefits offered by steroid hormones. Yes they will readily prescribe contraceptive hormones, and corticosteroids, but know next to nothing about anabolic steroids. I would go so far as to say that anyone who has read the ‘Steroid Newbie Thread’ already knows more (about steroids) than a lot of medical professionals. So who should be deciding what is “Intended” use again, lol?

Well I think with most of them the “Intended” people are the ones that are already dieing. The people that these drugs are used for in the medical profession (for the most part) are in serious risk of dieing and need help at any cost. If a person with AIDS is too weak to continue fighting off germs, then it is easier to give them Primo and deal with their hurt liver than it currently is to treat the AIDS.

As for the knowledge, I would rather think that the people who have a better understanding of the base chemicals in steriods (Doctors) know more than most on here who stop at, “OK so these 2 stack well together and then I should take this to stop the bitch tits.”

But all this is just my $0.02.[/quote]

No, doctors are notoriously ignorant of the base chemicals in steroids. My brother-in-law is in ENT and surgery. He’d be the first to tell you he doesn’t know. Pharmachologists know, and those physicians who specilize in that area. Your General Practioner or specialists in other fields would know about as much as anyone who’s watched the news and never done the research. I hope you at least now understand that the designer steroids/prohormones are quite dangerous, contain the same coumpounds as illegal steroids-sometimes in scary combinations-,and should be followed by real PCT. Legal PCT, with Biotest supplements or otherwise, is not sufficient. Biotests supplments ARE legal PCT, by the way.

38

[quote]CrewPierce wrote:
As for the knowledge, I would rather think that the people who have a better understanding of the base chemicals in steriods (Doctors) know more than most on here who stop at, “OK so these 2 stack well together and then I should take this to stop the bitch tits.”

But all this is just my $0.02.[/quote]

Doctors are not chemists. They routinely put overweight people on low-fat high-carb diets, and think they are accomplishing something.

At the risk of insulting some in the medical profession - If they can’t understand the Kreb’s cycle, how are we to trust them to understand the interactions of tesosterone, 19-nors, or 17-AA’s?

My bet is that if the drug companies gave huge kickbacks to the doctors for prescribing test - either injectable, or transdermal - everyone the uses the men’s restroom would be on the juice.

But like you said - it’s just my 2 cents as well.

39

As for using AAS for the people they were originally intended for, in a number of cases that is East German athletes.

40

[quote]rainjack wrote:
CrewPierce wrote:
As for the knowledge, I would rather think that the people who have a better understanding of the base chemicals in steriods (Doctors) know more than most on here who stop at, “OK so these 2 stack well together and then I should take this to stop the bitch tits.”

But all this is just my $0.02.

Doctors are not chemists. They routinely put overweight people on low-fat high-carb diets, and think they are accomplishing something.

At the risk of insulting some in the medical profession - If they can’t understand the Kreb’s cycle, how are we to trust them to understand the interactions of tesosterone, 19-nors, or 17-AA’s?

My bet is that if the drug companies gave huge kickbacks to the doctors for prescribing test - either injectable, or transdermal - everyone the uses the men’s restroom would be on the juice.

But like you said - it’s just my 2 cents as well.

[/quote]

Hmm that is true, and Rainjack you know a lot more about it than the avg. person on here.

I would venture to say though that the newer doctors have a greater understanding of what they are giving out to people. My brother finished med school a couple of years ago and he had to take many, many chemistry classes to study the drugs and their interactions. That said I don’t doubt that some doctors take kickbacks, but I would guess that the majority of them do not.

Rainjack you’re from Texas right? If you have ever heard of the Cooper Clinic down there my two cousins are the president and VP of it and I know that they too are well read on steroids, although their clinic does specialize in sports nutrition and training.