T Nation

Legal Drugs and Botanicals


I have decided to create a thread on something I found recently, which are drugs not yet properly classified because they are in a 'grey area' of the law and still legally available in many places, but still provide for a powerful psychoactive experience.

Of course, I will provide the usual disclaimer that this is for informational purposes only, I would only encourage informed, responsible use - and if you decide to try any of the chemicals mentioned here, it is your own decision.

The first two drugs I will mention are Methylone and Mephedrone. They are similar to 'designer steroids' in that they are a tweaked version of MDMA and other illegal stimulants - in the same way that designer steroids are tweaked versions of real AAS - which would make these substances 'designer drugs' of some sort.

The law struggles to classify these substances because they don't quite know what to make of them. They do not fall under the definition of an amphetamine, and that is the loophole in which they have been able to be legally sold in retail outlets and online stores.

Methylone is a structural analogue of MDMA. Its chemical name is 3,4-methylenedioxymethcathinone (while we know that MDMA or ecstacy is 3,4-methylenedioxymethamphetamine). The abbreviation for methylone is MDMCat. It provides experiences similar to, but less intense than, MDMA.

At the moment, methylone can be legally purchased & sold in the UK and there is currently an online store running, known as Champagne Legals, that sells it by the gram!

Mephedrone (4-Methylmethcathinone, 4-MMC) is apparently like a cross between MDMA and cocaine in subjective effect. It has the empathogenic properties of MDMA and the stimulant properties of cocaine. It can also be purchased by the gram from the Champagne Legals online source.

Has anyone had experience with any of these?


Next to be mentioned are the legal botanicals.

I have recently browsed through a web site called Bouncing Bear Botanicals and found some very interesting stuff indeed.

They legally sell Amanita Muscaria (magic mushroom) infused smoke blends, and even live toads called Bufo Alvarius (Sonoran Desert Toad), of which you can smoke their venom for a hallucinogenic trip because it contains a tryptamine (5-MeO-DMT)! Anyways I just find it hilarious that you can smoke a toad. I thought it was just a stupid urban legend, but apparently it is only this one species that has the tryptamine venom gland above their eyes.

They also sell Salvia Divinorum, a decorative potted plant that is also psychoactive (also something I wouldn't fuck with, given the trip reports I have read), Kratom (a Thai plant which can provide euphoria and opiate-like relaxation), Amanita Muscaria, and the legendary Ayahuasca.

I'd like to know more about Kratom, actually, and I wouldn't mind trying their Praya Smoka (Amanita mushroom infused smoke) blend....

Personally I'm not really into heavy hallucinogenic trips at the moment, but I don't mind taking a light mild trip, and I'm more excited about the MDMA analogues, but think this was a pretty cool find, just FYI.


More on Mephedrone - I actually think that what they are selling in Australia as ecstasy, is actually mephedrone!

There are two reasons why I suspect this -

  1. My MDMA experience recently was not much like the trip reports I've read and there was not much of a loved-up or tactile enhancement response. My experience seems more similar to the mephedrone trip reports (at erowid).

My subjective effect was somewhat different also because the level of euphoria I felt, was actually to my memories, what I felt like when I was normal, before my depression set in. I think, that these drugs make a person with a normal happiness level and neurochemistry, feel better than good, while with a a depressed person's chemistry, it makes them feel the excitement and enthusiasm a person should normally feel in their life - it brings them back to that baseline, albeit temporarily.

It's quite a therapeutic experience though, because it shows you how life should feel again, and allows you to open up and see the beauty that is there, that you have been unable to see for a long time.

  1. I had a friend who worked as a CO (prison guard), who was in touch with the criminal underworld, and he used to mention to me that his dealer friends were running 'Ephedrome' deliveries, which was a very valuable chemical for some reason. It sounds like he actually meant mephedrone but had substituted the syllables the wrong way around. I think the reason why it was such a valuable chemical was because it was able to be sold as ecstasy pills, while also being easier to get due to its unclassified legal status at the time!

Now, I also read an article that there wasa news story about this drug in Cairns, Australia:


They seized a quantity of mephedrone pills being sold as ecstasy.

What pisses me off about the article is that the idiot police and journalist got their facts wrong, labelling them as killer pills that can shut down vital organs. They actually mistook the abbreviations! It's just the typical scare mongering crap, plus lazy research and misinformation - while presenting this to the general public as 'facts'.

They thought 4-Methylmethcathinone is abbreviated as 4-MTA and mistakenly identified it as such, while in fact mephedrone is actually 4-MMC!

4-MTA is something else, an amphetamine analogue similar to PMA which is also sold as ecstasy, and THAT is the substance that can shut down vital organs. If you look up mephedrone on the net, there is no mention anywhere of it shutting down vital organs.


I'm hurt that no one has answered this thread... :frowning:


Are they available in the US?


Probably not the best source of information...

Check out PIKHAL and TIKHAL. The guy was a chemist who would synthesize a bunch of new drugs from basic templates then take them to see what the effects were.

Don't lick toads and the amanita muscaria mushrooms were a big part of siberian shamanism. The mushrooms were valued and the active ingredient was expelled in urine, so guys would get together and drink each others piss.

In the amazon they take frogs, and extract some liquid from them, then burn themselves a bit and apply the toad juice to the burn. They say it tells them where the animals are located to hunt. I believe they call it 'sapo'. DMT is the active ingredient, and it the hardest of the hard when it comes to hallucinogens.

This guy has some good writings on some of the more natural south american entheogenic substances:


All of the above are also toxic, and you can hurt yourself or die if do not know what you are doing.

Salvia is wild and I would say that is your best bet out of all the legal ones.

I would say the synthesized chemicals are more dangerous than the illegal ones, kinda like prohormones vs illegal aas.

You're better off just getting high on life and forgetting about all that shit.


Salvia's crazy.

Sent my heart rate and blood pressure through the roof though, not for anyone with heart conditions.


The Caterpillar from Alice in Wonderland perched atop a red A. muscaria mushroom.

Point of interest: Amanita muscaria mushrooms have been used for their psychoactive and hallucinogenic qualities since ancient times. They grow wild in great quantities on the island of Patmos in Greece, home of John, the author of the Book of Revelation, which is absolutely the trippiest book of the Bible.

No coincidence there, I don't imagine.


Kava and mushrooms mixed are the best


"They also sell Salvia Divinorum, a decorative potted plant that is also psychoactive (also something I wouldn't fuck with, given the trip reports I have read)"

Haha, you at least have to try this one, it produces such a strong trip, and it's a great thing to tell stories about. It only lasts for 5 mins or so, but your right the trips are insane and can be scary. Too bad it's illegal in IL now :frowning:


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I knew you'd be in to explore! I salute you for being the test pilot!

How can anyone refuse cheap legal drugs? lol. If I were in the UK I'd have been emailing champlegals days ago..

Let us know how it goes!


I've done Kratom a few times. The first two times were just a low dose, which gave me a surprisingly strong stimulant effect. The other time I took a larger dose and felt very lethargic, but I smoked some illegal substance while the effects were still hitting me, so I'm not sure what to attribute to what. Anyway that combination felt pretty potent.


A song I tought suits this thread :slight_smile:



Me likes the sounds of it.....hmmm....well well well something to experiment with me thinks.


I usually look up my info at Erowid.org - it's a good reliable source.

There's some basic info on the synthetic MDMA analogues at http://www.mephedrone.com and http://www.methylone.com . They don't look more dangerous than the illegal ones - they are actually quite well established chemicals, and there are even whole forums dedicated to them!


That's cool as fuck!

I liked the song!


I've been really interested in PEA (phenylethylamine) as of late. Its legal in the USA and Canada, but information on its use seems to be pretty scarce. It is summarized very basically here:


I heard that combining it with deprynl or other MAO-B inhibitors allows for better effects at a lower dose.

Anyone with any experience with this substance?


I've been experimenting with PEA and deprenyl, and PEA is wicked! It gives me a full body buzz, nice warm euphoria, and a sense of clarity. I also felt extra strong during my workout at the gym. All in all, I rate it highly.

It only seems to work best when taken on an empty stomach. It also seems to go well with other stimulants and creates an added boost to their effects.

The 'high' only lasts for 30 minutes to an hour, but then you stay in a positive mood all day. So I find it good as a treatment for depression as well.


PEA + Deprynl is supposed to be on par with amphetamine. I heard it didn't last long and the crash was just as bad though.

One thing not mentioned here is DXM. It is probably the strongest thing besides salvia listed. Kratom + DXM is INTENSE.