Legal Advice: Offering PT Services

Off Topic
21

[quote]Stuyou wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
so i figure if i sell my own sessions at $25 per session, to people already in a gym. (yea its a bit more shady and less profressional) even with 3 clients at 3x a week i could make 225 a week…thats for 9 hrs of work. and its all tax free, in my pocket cash.

…you know there is a big difference between tax evasion and tax free. Earning a living without paying taxes is an easy way to become someone’s girlfriend in a federal prison.

You will be responsible for federal, state,social security, medicare AND self employment taxes. “Self employment taxes” are the portion of social security and medicare taxes that your employer normally pays. Granted, if you only gross $12K/year you probably won’t pay much (if any) federal or state taxes, but you will still be responsible for both sides of SS & medicare.

Please note, I’m a CPA and my wife is a freelance PR/Communications writer so I have a good idea of what your are in for if you go out on your own. It’s not overly difficult, but it is more involved that you probably think.

[/quote]

Yep, my good friend owns his own business (it’s a little more involved than PT) and it’s not really easy to manage the financial side.

You can probably do it without getting caught, but like I said before, you’d really have to keep it quiet which is not what you want to do considering you want to advertise.

As a client though i would think you were super shady for only dealing in cash.

22

Everything else aside, you haven’t come across as someone overflowing with knowledge to the extent needed to train other people. If you’re working for a typical fitness gym then you have a somewhat captive audience and a certain amount of business funneled your way even if you’re little more than a counting machine. If you’re outside of that system then you need to be able to bring more to the table.

Work on your education. Get an internship and read some books. If you haven’t had any outside education beyond the internet, you should start by reading a decent proportion of the books listed by Cressey as recommended reading.
http://www.ericcressey.com/recommendedresources.html

23

“soliciting” your services at the new gym likely won’t work due to a lack of certification/insurance, i’m sure the new gym will probably require one/both of these.

I doubt anyone will buy a package deal for a large amount of cash, because if you ran off with their money they’d be SOL, and any semi-intelligent individual would know this.
just my opinion.

24

[quote]Razorslim wrote:

You are thinking like an employee, not like a business man

  1. You need to market yourself to the gym as someone who is going attract new members through your reputation as a trainer who gets results. Charge the gym a fee for everyone who signs up based on your referral. Make it seem like they need to be in business with you

  2. Train other “independant contractor” trainers your training system and earn residuals on the clients they train. They can also train others and earn residuals that can flow up to you.

  3. Write a book about your training system. Give it away free to clients. This gives you instant credibility, even if you publish it yourself.

  4. give seminars. A training seminar presented by Livefromthe781 author of Getting Buff with LIVE[/quote]

haha i like how you think. are you suggesting i train the gym trainers? that probaly wouldnt go over well i mean its cool to think about but in reality theyd be like wait…didnt you get fired from this place? and then theyd be like um, are you even certified…yeah crash and burn.

haha man this seems like a ton of work too. all i want is a handful of clients right now. 4-5 would be great but holy shit.

on second though though i still could probaly market it to some of the people im closer with at the gym. people at a younger age are less likely to ask a ton of questions. the thing that kills me is the certification i could just probaly print one out or get a cheap one for 50 bucks that i hear people talk about.

25

[quote]Blaze_108 wrote:
“soliciting” your services at the new gym likely won’t work due to a lack of certification/insurance, i’m sure the new gym will probably require one/both of these.

I doubt anyone will buy a package deal for a large amount of cash, because if you ran off with their money they’d be SOL, and any semi-intelligent individual would know this.
just my opinion.[/quote]

thats the thing i dont sell package deals, i do no minimum because im not established and my sales pitch is that its cheaper than anything else and going to be more effective too. i have one kid i used to work with semi-interested i think i can pressure him into it but he doesnt even have a gym membership so im gonna have to convince him to join somewhere first…yeah seems like a pain in the ass.

26

Why don’t you just get certified, seems like it would save you alot of trouble and you’ll end up better off in the long run, reputation wise. Fitness is a small world, if this is something you really want to do why not start off on the right foot. You might even learn something.

Remember, even if you take cash only and leave no paper trail, if someone gets injured it won’t take much for a lawsuit. I mean, if anyone sees you and the person training in the gym, or another “client” steps up and says, yeah that guy was training me too, you are going to be shit outta luck. Just fighting something like that could kill you financially for years.

i’ve run my own business for 7 years now and I’ve seen a lot of fly by night guys come and go. They either get busted for cash under the table or customers figure out pretty fast they are not legit.
Just seems to be a lot of risk for little long term benefit here.

27

and now you are suggesting you print out a fake certificate?

you are shady and lazy

learn how to learn and make something out of yourself, stop looking for so many shortcuts

28

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

and now you are suggesting you print out a fake certificate?

you are shady and lazy

learn how to learn and make something out of yourself, stop looking for so many shortcuts

[/quote]

not sure if that’s what he meant. You can actually just pay for a certification through a cert company and be “certified” since there is no governing body for it.

quite sad actually (though things are in the works)

hair dressers have to go through schooling (1200-1500 hrs) before they can work at salons, yet people can become trainers just like that.

29

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:

and now you are suggesting you print out a fake certificate?

you are shady and lazy

learn how to learn and make something out of yourself, stop looking for so many shortcuts

not sure if that’s what he meant. You can actually just pay for a certification through a cert company and be “certified” since there is no governing body for it.

quite sad actually (though things are in the works)

hair dressers have to go through schooling (1200-1500 hrs) before they can work at salons, yet people can become trainers just like that.[/quote]

It is pretty sad, when you think about it. I don’t regret going through the certification process, but damn, do you think most people wandering into a gym even have a clue what that paper means? IF it even means anything.
I wanted certification more for building a career, it has opened a few doors for me and I’ve made contacts through the program that could be very useful in the future. I think that showing gym owners and coaches that you are serious about learning and have an open mind towards different techniques of training goes a long ways.

Even the “best” certs out there are no guarantee, if you don’t look the part. The last trainer I saw who had NSCA certification had an ass like a tractor trailer, so WTF do care if she took a course. She might have known a lot of scientific, but obviously has spent too much time with a text book.

30

Identify your target demographic correctly. you won;t yet appeal to serious lifters imo, simply because you’re not big enough, but keep an eye out for struggling noobs in your gym. Take a couple of hefty friends with you (who are in the know) and make a show of helping them with their lifting form and giving advice to them, while they jot it down religiously. THen assist newbies and weaklings…and give them your card. free sessions offered etc.
Finally remember that a good conman takes a little bit of truth and a LOT of nonsense and pulls the wool over his victims’ eyes.

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
alright so since i got fired from my PT job i figured what do i need them for? and decided to do freelance work. now so far i havent approached anyone at the gym but ive talked to a couple outside which isnt my concern. anyway to the point whats the legality of trying to market services in the gym?

for example casually walking up to someone and giving a tip like oh, if you arch your back and put your legs down on the bench you can get more weight up then ask if theve ever had training etc and try to sell my service. is that considered soliciting? im not on great terms with the gym as is and really dont want to endure a legal shitstorm from them. [/quote]

31

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:

and now you are suggesting you print out a fake certificate?

you are shady and lazy

learn how to learn and make something out of yourself, stop looking for so many shortcuts

not sure if that’s what he meant. You can actually just pay for a certification through a cert company and be “certified” since there is no governing body for it.

quite sad actually (though things are in the works)

hair dressers have to go through schooling (1200-1500 hrs) before they can work at salons, yet people can become trainers just like that.[/quote]

aaahhh well my bad.

so you folks (trainers) don’t have to do a specific amount of hours and demonstrate appreciable knowledge?

wow… good to know

32

781…

Seriously man, start giving motivational speeches and writing get rich quick books.

33

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:

and now you are suggesting you print out a fake certificate?

you are shady and lazy

learn how to learn and make something out of yourself, stop looking for so many shortcuts

not sure if that’s what he meant. You can actually just pay for a certification through a cert company and be “certified” since there is no governing body for it.

quite sad actually (though things are in the works)

hair dressers have to go through schooling (1200-1500 hrs) before they can work at salons, yet people can become trainers just like that.

aaahhh well my bad.

so you folks (trainers) don’t have to do a specific amount of hours and demonstrate appreciable knowledge?

wow… good to know
[/quote]

no, most commercial gyms wont hire you without certification. some will but its pending you get certified. my only qualm with certification is that it seems overpriced and doesnt teach you anything applicable.

ok, other than some of the potential risk factors to look out for such as diabetes, athretis, or any other medical condition. but i unfortuantely sat through a 3-day ACSM workshop for renewal credits THINKING it was a certification course and we took a test afterwards. screwed me for over $400 dollars and made me feel pretty pissed off. although in that workshop just about everything that was on the test was presented. and i went when i first got into lifting and even then nothing blew me away. some fancy science about how a muscle contracts and stuff but really nothing that seemed useful as a trainer.

PT training isnt really focused on training so much as it really seems to be a bunch of filler.

34

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:

and now you are suggesting you print out a fake certificate?

you are shady and lazy

learn how to learn and make something out of yourself, stop looking for so many shortcuts

not sure if that’s what he meant. You can actually just pay for a certification through a cert company and be “certified” since there is no governing body for it.

quite sad actually (though things are in the works)

hair dressers have to go through schooling (1200-1500 hrs) before they can work at salons, yet people can become trainers just like that.

aaahhh well my bad.

so you folks (trainers) don’t have to do a specific amount of hours and demonstrate appreciable knowledge?

wow… good to know
[/quote]

No, I think you nailed it. He is shady and lazy.

35

[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:

and now you are suggesting you print out a fake certificate?

you are shady and lazy

learn how to learn and make something out of yourself, stop looking for so many shortcuts

not sure if that’s what he meant. You can actually just pay for a certification through a cert company and be “certified” since there is no governing body for it.

quite sad actually (though things are in the works)

hair dressers have to go through schooling (1200-1500 hrs) before they can work at salons, yet people can become trainers just like that.

aaahhh well my bad.

so you folks (trainers) don’t have to do a specific amount of hours and demonstrate appreciable knowledge?

wow… good to know

no, most commercial gyms wont hire you without certification. some will but its pending you get certified. my only qualm with certification is that it seems overpriced and doesnt teach you anything applicable.

ok, other than some of the potential risk factors to look out for such as diabetes, athretis, or any other medical condition. but i unfortuantely sat through a 3-day ACSM workshop for renewal credits THINKING it was a certification course and we took a test afterwards. screwed me for over $400 dollars and made me feel pretty pissed off. although in that workshop just about everything that was on the test was presented. and i went when i first got into lifting and even then nothing blew me away. some fancy science about how a muscle contracts and stuff but really nothing that seemed useful as a trainer.

PT training isnt really focused on training so much as it really seems to be a bunch of filler.[/quote]

PTs have to deal with a WIDE variety of clients. The people on this forum are a tiny tiny fraction of the people a PT trains.

I think being a PT is more complicated than you’re making it out to be. I mean, sure, it probably wouldn’t be hard if you only train clones of yourself. But everyone has unique issues and problems, things like flexibility, past injuries, posture, etc. Things that could lead to further injury if YOU as a PT are not aware of ways to train around them.

Your clientele will probably not be made up of 20 year old men. They generally don’t have much money and generally aren’t as much in need of a PT. The people you will train more often are the people who DO have problems with flexibility, posture, injuries, etc. because these are the people who NEED HELP.

How about you don’t market yourself as a PT, but as someone who will help out beginners for a cheap price. Maybe don’t do all the things a PT would do but just point people in the right direction - tell them what worked for you, maybe give them some articles on their specific problems, stuff like that. Just help get them acclimated to the gym environment by showing them the equipment and how to do things, so they get over that initial “scared” phase.

36

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:

and now you are suggesting you print out a fake certificate?

you are shady and lazy

learn how to learn and make something out of yourself, stop looking for so many shortcuts

not sure if that’s what he meant. You can actually just pay for a certification through a cert company and be “certified” since there is no governing body for it.

quite sad actually (though things are in the works)

hair dressers have to go through schooling (1200-1500 hrs) before they can work at salons, yet people can become trainers just like that.

aaahhh well my bad.

so you folks (trainers) don’t have to do a specific amount of hours and demonstrate appreciable knowledge?

wow… good to know

No, I think you nailed it. He is shady and lazy.
[/quote]

That’s true. Either way you look at it. Just because you can pay to have a cert, doesn’t mean it’s the smart thing or legit.

37

[quote]nowakc wrote:
LiveFromThe781 wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:

and now you are suggesting you print out a fake certificate?

you are shady and lazy

learn how to learn and make something out of yourself, stop looking for so many shortcuts

not sure if that’s what he meant. You can actually just pay for a certification through a cert company and be “certified” since there is no governing body for it.

quite sad actually (though things are in the works)

hair dressers have to go through schooling (1200-1500 hrs) before they can work at salons, yet people can become trainers just like that.

aaahhh well my bad.

so you folks (trainers) don’t have to do a specific amount of hours and demonstrate appreciable knowledge?

wow… good to know

no, most commercial gyms wont hire you without certification. some will but its pending you get certified. my only qualm with certification is that it seems overpriced and doesnt teach you anything applicable.

ok, other than some of the potential risk factors to look out for such as diabetes, athretis, or any other medical condition. but i unfortuantely sat through a 3-day ACSM workshop for renewal credits THINKING it was a certification course and we took a test afterwards. screwed me for over $400 dollars and made me feel pretty pissed off. although in that workshop just about everything that was on the test was presented. and i went when i first got into lifting and even then nothing blew me away. some fancy science about how a muscle contracts and stuff but really nothing that seemed useful as a trainer.

PT training isnt really focused on training so much as it really seems to be a bunch of filler.

PTs have to deal with a WIDE variety of clients. The people on this forum are a tiny tiny fraction of the people a PT trains.

I think being a PT is more complicated than you’re making it out to be. I mean, sure, it probably wouldn’t be hard if you only train clones of yourself. But everyone has unique issues and problems, things like flexibility, past injuries, posture, etc. Things that could lead to further injury if YOU as a PT are not aware of ways to train around them.

Your clientele will probably not be made up of 20 year old men. They generally don’t have much money and generally aren’t as much in need of a PT. The people you will train more often are the people who DO have problems with flexibility, posture, injuries, etc. because these are the people who NEED HELP.

How about you don’t market yourself as a PT, but as someone who will help out beginners for a cheap price. Maybe don’t do all the things a PT would do but just point people in the right direction - tell them what worked for you, maybe give them some articles on their specific problems, stuff like that. Just help get them acclimated to the gym environment by showing them the equipment and how to do things, so they get over that initial “scared” phase. [/quote]

this is true, although i dont think the major populus of PT clientele are that prone to injury i think theyre just people who have tried it on their own and havent made their goals happen so they seek the help of a professional.
theres a lot of guys and gals who just want to get more muscular or lose fat.

i kinda did want to target straight up begginers anyway. call it what you want but its easy to convince someone who doesnt know a thing about weights that they need you to help out. i use the phrase “its like flooring the gas without having the car in drive”.

id need a cooler title than “the guy whos gonna point you in the right direction” though.

38

[quote]jehovasfitness wrote:
Zap Branigan wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:
jehovasfitness wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:

and now you are suggesting you print out a fake certificate?

you are shady and lazy

learn how to learn and make something out of yourself, stop looking for so many shortcuts

not sure if that’s what he meant. You can actually just pay for a certification through a cert company and be “certified” since there is no governing body for it.

quite sad actually (though things are in the works)

hair dressers have to go through schooling (1200-1500 hrs) before they can work at salons, yet people can become trainers just like that.

aaahhh well my bad.

so you folks (trainers) don’t have to do a specific amount of hours and demonstrate appreciable knowledge?

wow… good to know

No, I think you nailed it. He is shady and lazy.

That’s true. Either way you look at it. Just because you can pay to have a cert, doesn’t mean it’s the smart thing or legit.
[/quote]

That is true too.