I got some really nasty inflammation in my patellar tendon a few years ago doing leg presses. I was pretty new to weight training, and I’m not a body builder (just a jiu jitsu guy trying to improve his strength and endurance). Switched to squats, no injury problems since then.
[quote]Chewie wrote:
What is a “sqaut”? [/quote]
Its a unique form of squat found only in the rarest gyms. Many people never live to see one let alone have the opportunity to perform one.
When my back goes wonky, I avoid leg presses. I seem to be one of those people who experience a lot of pain using a leg press machine. Personally I use (as recommended above) single leg exercises with dumbbells when my back is in pain. My exercises of choice are the split squat and the single leg deadlift.
Both of these seem to allow my back to heal and strengthen without great stress on it. May seem counterintuitive but I do a good 6 weeks or so with those being my main leg work whenever my back is a mess and it helps me a lot.
My theory as for why, is that it forces neutral spine and a lot of glute activation. Personally I think weak glutes attributes to a lot of lower back problems (I am not a dr. I have no idea of the validity of this, but anecdotally it seems true to me).
Anyway hope your back heals up kindly.
Try sprints. Uphill and downhill.
I do leg presses and squats in the same workout, and ever since I’ve been doing this, I’ve been gaining strength faster than I was just doing squats or leg presses alone. Basically, I added a 20-rep super squat protocol after doing my 3 leg press-leg extension supersets, and it worked.
[quote]My theory as for why, is that it forces neutral spine and a lot of glute activation. Personally I think weak glutes attributes to a lot of lower back problems (I am not a dr. I have no idea of the validity of this, but anecdotally it seems true to me).
Anyway hope your back heals up kindly.[/quote]
Johnny Ninja,
Your theory is pretty close to reality.
Those exercises don’t necessarily “force” neutral spine, but they allow you to maintain it better. You are in a better biomechanical position to hold those neutral postures which in turn alleviate the injury causing mechanism/stressors.
You got the second part bang on. Oftentimes, poor glute activation patterns are seen in low back disorders (for more info google Vlad Janda’s Crossed Pelvis). In most standard squat and leg press positions, gluteal activation isn’t maximized until in the deeper positions (the same ones where your back is at greater risk). The single leg variations (esp. squats/DLs) have a much quicker activation of the glutes (esp. stabilization capacity of glute medius). This has a back sparing effect.
Standing position exercises also allow you to use other major back stabilizers such as the lats and the quadratus lumborum (QLs).
It really comes down to your goal in deciding which exercise has the greatest risk/benefit for you in that particular situation.
[quote]undeadlift wrote:
I do leg presses and squats in the same workout, and ever since I’ve been doing this, I’ve been gaining strength faster than I was just doing squats or leg presses alone. Basically, I added a 20-rep super squat protocol after doing my 3 leg press-leg extension supersets, and it worked.[/quote]
I feel like this is probably a bad idea.
Leg presses are hell on my lower back, back squats work them up to.
Front squats and bulgarian split squats are my 2 money exercises in this category.
Great posts. The day I went into the gym and blew my back out I was listening to my body but ignored it. On the way there I kept saying to myself “I think it would be a good idea to do the leg press instead. Your lower back is still pretty sore from doing deadlifts.”
I walked into the weight room and saw the squat rack and I couldn’t resist. I did a few warm ups then on my 3rd work set with just 315 on the bar I went vary deep on the 4th rep. At the bottom of the movement my lower back muscles gave out from fatigue. My lower back rounded and I felt a pop. I put the bar down put my weights away then did some leg presses with no prob (I had to finish my leg workout).
Well later when the inflammation kicked in I was in a lot of pain. I could hardly get out of bed to take a piss for 5 days.
I’m seeing a great chiropractor who said I strained a disc but I should be able to squat by tues. If I feel OK I think I’ll try 3 sets front squats at first and then go to the leg press. Single leg work seem interesting also and if I still have some problems than I give em a try.
I remember leg press really got my legs big and they don’t hurt my back but I love to squat. I’m pretty much a bodybuilder and I don’t do any other sports. I just train for size and strength.
I remember Bob Chicarillo don’t like to squat because it thickens up his waste. I’ve found this to be true but I don’t care I’m not competing right now. Oh ya in the gym and in the kitchen I wouldn’t consider myself an average joe.
[quote]fightingtiger wrote:
undeadlift wrote:
I do leg presses and squats in the same workout, and ever since I’ve been doing this, I’ve been gaining strength faster than I was just doing squats or leg presses alone. Basically, I added a 20-rep super squat protocol after doing my 3 leg press-leg extension supersets, and it worked.
I feel like this is probably a bad idea.[/quote]
Yeah. It’s hard to squat with an injured back (I never recommended this in the first place). Anyway, my point was that doing both can be more beneficial than doing either.
[quote]undeadlift wrote:
fightingtiger wrote:
undeadlift wrote:
I do leg presses and squats in the same workout, and ever since I’ve been doing this, I’ve been gaining strength faster than I was just doing squats or leg presses alone. Basically, I added a 20-rep super squat protocol after doing my 3 leg press-leg extension supersets, and it worked.
I feel like this is probably a bad idea.
Yeah. It’s hard to squat with an injured back (I never recommended this in the first place). Anyway, my point was that doing both can be more beneficial than doing either.[/quote]
I used to do all sorts of stuff for legs but lately I’ve just been doing different variations of squats. I agree I think both together are more beneficial. When I did squats then leg press my legs were big and strong so I’m going back to this.
I’ve found that every time I screwed my lower back up squatting, it’s because my mind wasn’t totally in it. Get a belt for the heavy sets, and keep focused.
I’m part of the camp that feels leg presses put more stress on my lower back than squats (with good form) do. A leg press forces you into a certain position, which may not be the best position for you. We’re all built different, and one leg press machine may work great while another screws your back all to hell.
I recently screwed up my lower back. I did nothing that would put strain on it for a week while icing it, heating it, and doing mild stretching. For legs I placed my hands on a table to alleviate some strain and did high rep Hindu squats.
After a week, my back felt great so I deadlifted. The next week I started squatting again. I didn’t lose any strength or size in my legs from taking the time off to heal, and I’m sure I saved myself a lot of grief by resting.
Listen to your body. Sometimes you just gotta rest.
[quote]undeadlift wrote:
fightingtiger wrote:
undeadlift wrote:
I do leg presses and squats in the same workout, and ever since I’ve been doing this, I’ve been gaining strength faster than I was just doing squats or leg presses alone. Basically, I added a 20-rep super squat protocol after doing my 3 leg press-leg extension supersets, and it worked.
I feel like this is probably a bad idea.
Yeah. It’s hard to squat with an injured back (I never recommended this in the first place). Anyway, my point was that doing both can be more beneficial than doing either.[/quote]
I was talking about the leg extension/leg press superset followed by 20 rep squats. Sounds like an open invitation for knee injury. I at least hope that is not your entire leg workout. Where are the hamstrings?
I have a bulging disc in my back and learned to work around it for the past 4 years.
I don’t back squat anymore, but incorporate front squats, lunges, dumbbell deadlifts.
I do use the leg press. If you have a back injury (or don’t even have one), I would not recommend performing leg presses with both legs. I leg press with 1 leg, per the recommendation of Dr. Stuary McGill- reknown back expert
[quote]Fenris wrote:
I’ve found that every time I screwed my lower back up squatting, it’s because my mind wasn’t totally in it. Get a belt for the heavy sets, and keep focused.
I’m part of the camp that feels leg presses put more stress on my lower back than squats (with good form) do. A leg press forces you into a certain position, which may not be the best position for you. We’re all built different, and one leg press machine may work great while another screws your back all to hell.
[/quote]
I gotta say the Cybex squat press machine feels the best by far.
[quote]fightingtiger wrote:
undeadlift wrote:
fightingtiger wrote:
undeadlift wrote:
I do leg presses and squats in the same workout, and ever since I’ve been doing this, I’ve been gaining strength faster than I was just doing squats or leg presses alone. Basically, I added a 20-rep super squat protocol after doing my 3 leg press-leg extension supersets, and it worked.
I feel like this is probably a bad idea.
Yeah. It’s hard to squat with an injured back (I never recommended this in the first place). Anyway, my point was that doing both can be more beneficial than doing either.
I was talking about the leg extension/leg press superset followed by 20 rep squats. Sounds like an open invitation for knee injury. I at least hope that is not your entire leg workout. Where are the hamstrings?[/quote]
Well, I rest 3 minutes between the supersets and I do hamstring exercises (maximal isometric holds on a nautilus machine for 7 seconds in 8 different positions) before I 20-rep squat. I pretty much covered both sides of my knee.
My leg workout starts with Romanian Deadlifts 3x5 cluster style. After that, the above mentioned, followed by extended-5 calf raises. I finish with 100 bodyweight squats and 100 hamstring curls.
That was my June workout. I’m switching to EDT this July.
[quote]undeadlift wrote:
fightingtiger wrote:
undeadlift wrote:
fightingtiger wrote:
undeadlift wrote:
I do leg presses and squats in the same workout, and ever since I’ve been doing this, I’ve been gaining strength faster than I was just doing squats or leg presses alone. Basically, I added a 20-rep super squat protocol after doing my 3 leg press-leg extension supersets, and it worked.
I feel like this is probably a bad idea.
Yeah. It’s hard to squat with an injured back (I never recommended this in the first place). Anyway, my point was that doing both can be more beneficial than doing either.
I was talking about the leg extension/leg press superset followed by 20 rep squats. Sounds like an open invitation for knee injury. I at least hope that is not your entire leg workout. Where are the hamstrings?
Well, I rest 3 minutes between the supersets and I do hamstring exercises (maximal isometric holds on a nautilus machine for 7 seconds in 8 different positions) before I 20-rep squat. I pretty much covered both sides of my knee.
My leg workout starts with Romanian Deadlifts 3x5 cluster style. After that, the above mentioned, followed by extended-5 calf raises. I finish with 100 bodyweight squats and 100 hamstring curls.
That was my June workout. I’m switching to EDT this July.[/quote]
What you just described sounds a bit complex, especially for a younger trainee. I tend to stick with the basics, especially when training legs. I have found I get the most growth out of squats, front squats, deads, and RDL’s.
EDT is good shit if you set it up right and dont pussy through it. Be sure to eat a lot when youre doing it, otherwise, it will kill you. Literally. People have died.
I squatted for about 6 months, then my knees started to hurt really bad every time I squatted, so I switched to the leg press machine, and the pain is virtually gone when I work legs.
And I agree with you Hagar, the Cybex Squat Press Machine gives me the best exercise as well for legs.
[quote]fightingtiger wrote:
undeadlift wrote:
fightingtiger wrote:
undeadlift wrote:
fightingtiger wrote:
undeadlift wrote:
EDT is good shit if you set it up right and dont pussy through it. Be sure to eat a lot when youre doing it, otherwise, it will kill you. Literally. People have died.[/quote]
I’m on EDT right now, and it’s lighting me up, but in a good way. I’m using it for fat loss, and it’s working great. The first couple of times I did the program I went light on the weights to get the feel for the timings. Undeadlift, you might have to do the same thing just to get used to the program.
[quote]fightingtiger wrote:
What you just described sounds a bit complex, especially for a younger trainee. I tend to stick with the basics, especially when training legs. I have found I get the most growth out of squats, front squats, deads, and RDL’s.
EDT is good shit if you set it up right and dont pussy through it. Be sure to eat a lot when youre doing it, otherwise, it will kill you. Literally. People have died.[/quote]
I stagnated with the basics (I guess I’m a hard gainer) so I switched to something more complex. Furthermore, my old workouts bore me, so even if my leg workout was doing fine compared to my other body parts, I switched anyway. I mainly have Thibs to thank for an interesting and effective workout (what I did was a modified version of HSS-100).
EDT has killed people? I let my friend try it (because he wanted a 30-minute workout at that time), and even though he’s a beginner (more than I am), it didn’t kill him. I forced him to do the exercises without rest (2 PR zones of 10 minutes because he lacked time), so I’m pretty sure he was giving it his all. He had was a huge pump, and he found it so effective that he’s asking for a link to T-Nation.
Then again, I gave him a chest/back workout (bench press/bent-over rows & dips/pullups) with a shorter PR zone. I’m sure it will be a lot harder with legs and the regular 15-minute PR zone.