Leben Tests Positive for Roids

You’re way out of your league here.

“No shit, trust me, you can work hard without steroids”

Of course you can work out hard, that is not the point. Problem is, times have changed big time. Steroids are a tremendous help when it comes to regeneration (of course also in preserving muscle when cutting down) and healing injuries.
Keep in mind also, that modern MMA training is along the most stressful and Racing, Football, even Boxing pales in comparison. Why is that, you may ask.

The body is good in adapting to a certain kind of training/strain. That is the reason some trainers advocate to fatties to mix up their training (I consider this wrong, but this is for another thread) frequently , in order to keep the body guessing and the stress high.

In Boxing, some time ago, even champs went only to the boxing gym and did roadwork on top of that. Nowadays their training has diversified, but not much.
An MMA champ like GSP does Wrestling, BJJ, Swimming and other more traditional forms of cardio, Boxing, Muay Thay or Kickboxing, MMA classes concentrating on Clinchfighting, on avoiding takedowns etc. and visits the weightroom.

The deliberately seek out a very stressful training environment to be prepared for the ultimate form of chaotic melee where everything is possible.

Michael Schumacher also trained hard for hours, as does Phelps, but they actually train to get into a high pitched alpha state, a heavy duty comfort zone from where you reflexes automatically kick in fly-by-wire style. They want to have the sharpest form of routine, they want to function like a machine.
This is not possible in Martial Arts, least of all MMA.

Now steroids are all common in these sports but surely you will understand that a Formula One driver could have a bad knee, a soccer player trouble with his neck etc. MMA requires your whole body to be in spectacular condition to be able to both train and fight.

Compared to most other athletes, there isn’t a much of a favourable genetic setup to hope for. A soccer player with bad knees get weeded out long before he has a shot at earning millions. In MMA every joint will be punished, every faulty movement pattern will be mercilessly exposed. Guys even try to break your bones in training!

And then you throw the cheat argument before you as a last resort.

Yep, it’s cheating, but then you’re playing with words here so let me play, too. Normally, cheating means a foul in the actual game, like a low blow.
When they discovered that steroids can be used to make you harder, faster, better they disallowed them.
The again, who actually did that and enforced it efficiently? Officially they are forbidden, yes, but usually you get away with it if you play smart.
Officially, it’s forbidden to ellbow check in waterball or knee somebody in the groin, but who gives a crap. You’re a fool if you don’t learn how to foul in that sport or to pass while getting punched.
Officially, it’s forbidden in soccer to pretend getting hurt. Yet they do it all the time, perfecting it to a form of art.
I could go on for hours.

I’ll tell you something that’s been true for ages:
A law that’s not enforced concerns only the imbecile.

Anyway, the weak of mind perceive steroids as cheating because they think carrying more muscle than you “ought” to have is wrong, that you somehow break the “natural” (or god-given) limits while they cannot.
Even Royce Gracie tried to defend himself in an interview with playing the muscle-card. “Look at me”, he said to the interviewer, “do you think I’m on Steroids”.

Society doesn’t care if he’s on steroids because he wants to train in spite of injuries,while feeding millions of women steroids without losing sleep.
Steroids are bad, m’kay.

Trickling down through the anti aging clinics, they will be legal nayway someday in the future.

Perhaps you can sleep better now?

p.s.
As a bonus question, you can tell me why a fighter who’s gotten ill is allowed to get a doctor. Isn’t that unfair, after all, wasn’t his immune system just too weak?

[quote]joshjuk wrote:
I agree with both of your posts, but what about the fact that it goes against UFC rules. I don’t care if a fighter uses steroids to recover faster. I wouldn’t use steroids either, but the fact is a lot of fighters do, regardless of the rules. I consider that CHEATING. Phelps didn’t break any rules using his special suit, so I don’t think that applies.[/quote]

You’re deluded if you think that Phelps, Armstrong and Co aren’t into Vitamin S.
The suit changes the sport, there is a reason why athletes in ancient Greece participated naked. And why the powerlifter wearing a suit effectively are doing a different sport then raw lifters. Etc.
If you consider the suit OK and Steroids not, you’re an even bigger fool.

[quote]blazindave wrote:
joshjuk wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
joshjuk wrote:There will ALWAYS be people trying to get an advantage over their opponents, some people choose hard work, others CHEAT.

You are a retard. Fighters take steroids so that they can choose hard work.

Guys don’t juice as an easy way out. Guys juice so they can work harder.

Why is that so hard for you people to understand?

Again, stick to trading Pokemons. You won’t need steroids to recover from a hard card-trading session.

No shit, trust me, you can work hard without steroids. I don’t know what your obsession with pokemon is, but whatever. You seem to be afraid to address the actual point of what I said, it is CHEATING! your reading comprehension is awful. Again, nothing wrong with steroids, unless the sport you play says they are against the rules. Have some self respect, work hard (it can be done without the use of steroids).

It’s true that it can be done without steroids but when your life is on the line (they get paid to WIN fights ) then you will see things differently. And when you’re getting the huge loads of cash they get, you start to see your job differently.

Now i would never use steroids but i don’t see why they should be illegal.

Look at Michael Phelps. That ugly fucker set a few WR and got +7 gold medals. You know what he had in his possession though?
He had that LZR suit thing. Why doesn’t he wear the same stuff they did back in the 70s. How is he not cheating and MMA fighters who use steroids are?
Sports should be self regulated. I do not expect a law maker or a soccer mom to understand anything involving training, steroids, recovery, etc…so why THEY should be allowed to dictate what is fair game or not is retarded at best.
So, while you can train hard without steroids, it is fact that you can train HARDER with them and i would never hold that against someone who decides to use them.[/quote]

He also swam more than twice as many races as his predecessors would have had to (more qualifying rounds). trust me, his suit was a small part of the equation.

I do agree that sports grow and evolve. New training, new equipment, new rules. However, what he did was against the explicit rules of the league, it is cheating. Phelps’s suit is currently within the rules.

I also don’t think you should allow in all new developments in technology, drugs, whatever. Look at how fragmented powerlifting is with the dramatic difference in federations that equipment has created.

Good post Shwarz, it’s just hard to understand taking any substance that is banned. That is why Phelps didn’t cheat because it is not against the rules of his sport.

I promise there are fighters who don’t take steroids or have the ability to(depending where you are and train). I know here in Fort Collins, I don’t KNOW of any of the local guys that take steroids. I know these guys aren’t fighting at the elite level (yet).

Even at the elite level like the UFC, there are fighters that aren’t taking any banned substances. How many? I guess we would never know.

BTW, the other things you mentioned such as “flopping” isn’t considered illegal. If a ref suspects a player “flopped,” he isn’t going to call a foul on the player who “flopped.” BANNED substances and “flopping” are in a different league

One last post joshjuk, then I’ll go to bed. It’s late here.

My rather wild and chaotic post attempted to make three major points:

taking steroids in MMA is different then, say, Cycling (who juice for performance mainly) or Bodybuilding (they juice mainly for size). It’s fairer because it doesn’t directly boosts your performance. And top-tier MMA training is more stressful and dangerous, literally borders on what is humanly possible to learn and apply at one time(kickboxing, cardio, wrestling…), yet compared to cycling or bodybuilding your performance won’t get magically better. Yet why do they juice?

Most people associate chemical assistance with a narcisstic and morally wrong persuit for muscle & strength which inevitable poisons the body. Now, if this is all incorrect, is the ban itself incorrect?

They all juice, The more money a sport generates, the faster the syringes go over the counter. If society wants close their eyes and see more homeruns, will you as an educated individual play dumb, too?

Besides, it’s immoral to accept things that are bad for our societies.

So now you write:
"That is why Phelps didn’t cheat because it is not against the rules of his sport. "
First of all, Phelps may be drug free (small chance). He is precisely what I described before (endurance athlete, a lot less stress because it’s largely only swimming, genetically favoured because of his ridiculous poportions, hormone levels etc., steroids are way more effective here becuase it’s largely endurance) but still you try to defend the stupid suit.
Olympic commitees do discuss the introduction of new elements. The suit offers, at least in theory, DEFINITE advantages. The hardware war in sports today borders on great unfairness, since poorer athletes can’t afford the fancy shit.
However, when Nike says their newest invention shall prevail, chances are, the commitee will nod.
If you accept what some fat sport functionary deems right as the one, shining truth, then, well, good for you. Your life will be easier then mine.
It’s bs for me.
The swim suits are unfair, with chemial assistance you can empower only your body but here we’re talking about external mechanical help.

Yes, you can do MMA splendidly at a local level without them.
At a local level, endurance elevating chemicals (for instance, EPO-like substances) are probably better anyway. But this is not what we’re talking here.

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
He also swam more than twice as many races as his predecessors would have had to (more qualifying rounds). trust me, his suit was a small part of the equation.

I do agree that sports grow and evolve. New training, new equipment, new rules. However, what he did was against the explicit rules of the league, it is cheating. Phelps’s suit is currently within the rules.

I also don’t think you should allow in all new developments in technology, drugs, whatever. Look at how fragmented powerlifting is with the dramatic difference in federations that equipment has created.[/quote]

“Trust me, I promise, believe me”…

It’s arguments I want, not your assurance!
And so far, these are rather poorly thought out.
“A small part of the equation”?
How small exactly? Even one tenth of a second played a role at the olympics, meaning the difference between winning (=cash) and second place (=losing, little to no cash), didn’t you know? So as long as it’s just PART of the equation it’s unfair. And don’t come with “the rules”. The olympic games hold the biggest sport competitions practically hostage. If they ban steroids, why do you seem to have a personal problem with cheaters?

Seriously Phelps? Seriously? Do you guys honestly believe he smashed multiple records of guys (some of whom had to have used something) without any chemical assistance? Really?

[quote]slimjim wrote:
Seriously Phelps? Seriously? Do you guys honestly believe he smashed multiple records of guys (some of whom had to have used something) without any chemical assistance? Really?[/quote]

That wasn’t the point.
My point was that while something might be legal, it doesn’t make it any more or less fair than something is illegal.
Have phelps swim in a tiny speedo and see how his times change.

[quote]blazindave wrote:
slimjim wrote:
Seriously Phelps? Seriously? Do you guys honestly believe he smashed multiple records of guys (some of whom had to have used something) without any chemical assistance? Really?

That wasn’t the point.
My point was that while something might be legal, it doesn’t make it any more or less fair than something is illegal.
Have phelps swim in a tiny speedo and see how his times change.[/quote]

I got the point, but I find it ironic that we’re all going to act so naive as to believe that Leben is an exception in utilizing performance enhancers in the sports world when truly the exceptions are the rare guys not using.

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
He also swam more than twice as many races as his predecessors would have had to (more qualifying rounds). trust me, his suit was a small part of the equation.

I do agree that sports grow and evolve. New training, new equipment, new rules. However, what he did was against the explicit rules of the league, it is cheating. Phelps’s suit is currently within the rules.

I also don’t think you should allow in all new developments in technology, drugs, whatever. Look at how fragmented powerlifting is with the dramatic difference in federations that equipment has created.

“Trust me, I promise, believe me”…

It’s arguments I want, not your assurance!
And so far, these are rather poorly thought out.
“A small part of the equation”?
How small exactly?

Even one tenth of a second played a role at the olympics, meaning the difference between winning (=cash) and second place (=losing, little to no cash), didn’t you know? So as long as it’s just PART of the equation it’s unfair.

And don’t come with “the rules”. The olympic games hold the biggest sport competitions practically hostage. If they ban steroids, why do you seem to have a personal problem with cheaters? [/quote]

Trust me was the only one of those I stated that you put in quotes. And that trust comes from about 8 years of swimming competitively.

Pretty much all the swimmers in the Olympics use “enhancement” suits or at least have access to them, though some choose not to wear them. My point is that when you are beating second place by 5 seconds, the suit wasn’t the difference, especially when the second place guy is wearing the same kind of suit.

The suit may be the difference in him crushing world records, vs. only smashing them. =0)

I would honestly think EPO and things of that sort would be more beneficial to swimmers, MMA guys but I’m pretty uneducated on that subject.

[quote]slimjim wrote:
I got the point, but I find it ironic that we’re all going to act so naive as to believe that Leben is an exception in utilizing performance enhancers in the sports world when truly the exceptions are the rare guys not using.[/quote]

I think the issue is that Leben lost and people don’t like him…so he gets shit on. Royce Gracie pissed pure deca in the only drug test he ever took in his life and people act like it didn’t happen.

">taking steroids in MMA is different then, say, Cycling (who juice for performance mainly) or Bodybuilding (they juice mainly for size). It’s fairer because it doesn’t directly boosts your performance. . . "

Bullshit. Of course steroid use directly improves performance, I’m not even going to argue the reasons why . . . clue, they are banned becasue they are proven “performance enhancers”!

Steroid use in mma is institutionalised; in fact one of the worst kept secrets within the sport. Everyone,at all levels, knows that the majority of fighters have used various banned perfomance-enhancers at some timeduring their mma training. Look at the statistics for test failures in Nevada and note how many of them are for mma.

Dana White is one of the biggest hypocrites. He’s an intelligent guy who has spent a LOT of time around fighters, and will without a doubt know just how widespread the problem is. All he is doing is protecting his business interests - UFC is a business not a sport - by initiating drug tests within the organisation so he can say that UFc are doing all they can with regards to drug use. You really think that fighters won’t be getting given advice on how to beat the tests etc?! Wake up!!