Learning About Obama Care

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I am presently insured paying market value for that insurance , I have medical , dental and eye care the medical and dental I have not used because with my deductible and co pay they are cheaper as a cash price , I will drop them. Kind of with the Medical I have a deductible of $900 and if I want to remove a cyst I will burn up all the $900 deductible or I can have it removed for $300 cash, This is capitalism , I will how ever keep the Medical side just in case I have something serious some day[/quote]

No, the pretense of private control of capital with a micromanaging of the market by the government is fascism.

Or, if you prefer that, corporatism, Mussolini would approve. [/quote]

If I understand you correctly , I totally agree :slight_smile:

22

[quote]
No, the pretense of private control of capital with a micromanaging of the market by the government is fascism.

Or, if you prefer that, corporatism, Mussolini would approve.[/quote]

I could agree with that.
But if it’s true, then capitalism is a purely theoretic beast that has never been seen anywhere on Earth.
And fascism is way more widespread than we usually thought.

23

[quote]kamui wrote:

Its a matter of degrees.

Either way, if governments an big business get too close it kind of stinks for the rest of us, no matter which one of them is leading the dance.

Also, I think it makes a difference whether government cronies fleece the public a little bit, like the railroad industry in the US in the 19th century in an otherwise relatively free market or whether cronyism becomes an all pervasive attitude or captures a key industry like finance.

24

[quote]
Either way, if governments an big business get too close it kind of stinks for the rest of us, no matter which one of them is leading the dance.[/quote]

now, i can fully agree.
But it would be true even if there was no government in the equation, but only private structures (militaro-industrial companies, mafias, feodal lords).
the problem here is the concentration of powers at the top, and lack of “from bottom to top” counter-powers.

25

[quote]kamui wrote:

[quote]
Either way, if governments an big business get too close it kind of stinks for the rest of us, no matter which one of them is leading the dance.[/quote]

now, i can fully agree.
But it would be true even if there was no government in the equation, but only private structures (militaro-industrial companies, mafias, feodal lords).
the problem here is the concentration of powers at the top, and lack of “from bottom to top” counter-powers. [/quote]

Oh well, could we like, build a relatively weak federal government with relatively strong states rights so that they could keep each other in check?

Chances are that might work quite well for a hundred years or so.

26

<---- Thinks the concept of “voting with your feet” is seriously under appreciated.

27

[quote]
Oh well, could we like, build a relatively weak federal government with relatively strong states rights so that they could keep each other in check?

Chances are that might work quite well for a hundred years or so.[/quote]

in Austria ?
I don’t know.

As a french citizen, I do support policies based on the subsidiarity principle at every occasion.
but it’s only one little piece of the puzzle.

28

If you read this thread from the first post, you can easily see exactly when it was moved to PWI.

“ass raped without lube” … Classy.

29

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:
It’s Socialism at it’s finest.

CS[/quote]

I disagree , it is capitalism at it’s finest
[/quote]

True, the respect for private capital and the free decisions of the customers is practically exemplified in the US health care system.

No, really, you cannot even thing “cutthroat competition” without the US health care system coming to mind.

Which is of course why the services get cheaper and better by the minute. [/quote]

You don’t understand the system.
First the problem wasn’t and never was insurance. Insurance was a symptom, not the problem in itself. The problem with healthcare in America has several problems all of it centered around cost.
An overbearing pharmacological system devoid of competitive forces. No foreign drugs, no foreign medical devices. You open that up and you’d need to sell your pharmaceutical stocks because those bitches would fall like a stone.
No proper regulatory processes in place. Companies can sell drugs for what ever they want, while they sell them for a fraction to foreign countries. Drugs need to be the same across the board. Why does a bag of saline cost $200 dollars when it costs $.01 to make? R & D my ass.

Bottom line obama care made a bad situation worse. It would have been cheaper for everybody if the government just bought 31 million people coverage for 10 years, than this idiotic plan.

30

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:
It’s Socialism at it’s finest.

CS[/quote]

I disagree , it is capitalism at it’s finest
[/quote]

True, the respect for private capital and the free decisions of the customers is practically exemplified in the US health care system.

No, really, you cannot even thing “cutthroat competition” without the US health care system coming to mind.

Which is of course why the services get cheaper and better by the minute. [/quote]

You don’t understand the system.
First the problem wasn’t and never was insurance. Insurance was a symptom, not the problem in itself. The problem with healthcare in America has several problems all of it centered around cost.
An overbearing pharmacological system devoid of competitive forces. No foreign drugs, no foreign medical devices. You open that up and you’d need to sell your pharmaceutical stocks because those bitches would fall like a stone.
No proper regulatory processes in place. Companies can sell drugs for what ever they want, while they sell them for a fraction to foreign countries. Drugs need to be the same across the board. Why does a bag of saline cost $200 dollars when it costs $.01 to make? R & D my ass.

Bottom line obama care made a bad situation worse. It would have been cheaper for everybody if the government just bought 31 million people coverage for 10 years, than this idiotic plan.
[/quote]

<----- Was sarcastic.

They could have lifted the ban on bare bones policies, allow competition across state lines, could have allowed insurances and hospitals to re import drugs from other countries and, most importantly decouple insurance and employment, but nooooooo, the answer is of course and inevitably more regulation.

31

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
If you read this thread from the first post, you can easily see exactly when it was moved to PWI.

“ass raped without lube” … Classy. [/quote]

Yeah well, a spade is a spade and not a dirt relocation device.

If you ever had one shoved up your ass sans lube, you would know.

32

The only problem as I see it is the total inability of the federal government to run ANYTHING with any kind of success.

If we had a federal surplus, I’d say fine…have a government healthcare option. But this ungainly beast will be what broke the bank in the end.

And nobody will get any better health care out of it.

33

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:
It’s Socialism at it’s finest.

CS[/quote]

I disagree , it is capitalism at it’s finest
[/quote]

True, the respect for private capital and the free decisions of the customers is practically exemplified in the US health care system.

No, really, you cannot even thing “cutthroat competition” without the US health care system coming to mind.

Which is of course why the services get cheaper and better by the minute. [/quote]

You don’t understand the system.
First the problem wasn’t and never was insurance. Insurance was a symptom, not the problem in itself. The problem with healthcare in America has several problems all of it centered around cost.
An overbearing pharmacological system devoid of competitive forces. No foreign drugs, no foreign medical devices. You open that up and you’d need to sell your pharmaceutical stocks because those bitches would fall like a stone.
No proper regulatory processes in place. Companies can sell drugs for what ever they want, while they sell them for a fraction to foreign countries. Drugs need to be the same across the board. Why does a bag of saline cost $200 dollars when it costs $.01 to make? R & D my ass.

Bottom line obama care made a bad situation worse. It would have been cheaper for everybody if the government just bought 31 million people coverage for 10 years, than this idiotic plan.
[/quote]

Hmmm I never knew the US medical system was so protectionist. In New Zealand we’ve been making breakthroughs in the biological, drug and technology frontiers, which is pretty impressive for a country of our size. These innovations are brining medical costs down so if what you say is true it’s a shame your system can’t take full advantage of some of the scientific progress that’s being made around the world. I know a pretty well-known company over here by the name of Fisher and Paykel Health care that has been expanding into the US market. They had to take some risk and build a facility in California but they are slowly permeating the market share with hospitals increasing demand for their products.

34

Like always Gambit attacking the words instead of the issue. Was not Obamacare supposed to lower cost and provide free Health care to all? Right just like he promised. Stay classy and on topic homeboy

35

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:
It’s Socialism at it’s finest.

CS[/quote]

I disagree , it is capitalism at it’s finest
[/quote]

True, the respect for private capital and the free decisions of the customers is practically exemplified in the US health care system.

No, really, you cannot even thing “cutthroat competition” without the US health care system coming to mind.

Which is of course why the services get cheaper and better by the minute. [/quote]

You don’t understand the system.
First the problem wasn’t and never was insurance. Insurance was a symptom, not the problem in itself. The problem with healthcare in America has several problems all of it centered around cost.
An overbearing pharmacological system devoid of competitive forces. No foreign drugs, no foreign medical devices. You open that up and you’d need to sell your pharmaceutical stocks because those bitches would fall like a stone.
No proper regulatory processes in place. Companies can sell drugs for what ever they want, while they sell them for a fraction to foreign countries. Drugs need to be the same across the board. Why does a bag of saline cost $200 dollars when it costs $.01 to make? R & D my ass.

Bottom line obama care made a bad situation worse. It would have been cheaper for everybody if the government just bought 31 million people coverage for 10 years, than this idiotic plan.
[/quote]

I believe I understand completely, I would agree with most of your statement , But insurance maybe was not a problem years ago but today they are definitely are a problem , today they are a cartel controlling all aspects of health care .

Please gold bar me Puss

36

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:
It’s Socialism at it’s finest.

CS[/quote]

I disagree , it is capitalism at it’s finest
[/quote]

True, the respect for private capital and the free decisions of the customers is practically exemplified in the US health care system.

No, really, you cannot even thing “cutthroat competition” without the US health care system coming to mind.

Which is of course why the services get cheaper and better by the minute. [/quote]

You don’t understand the system.
First the problem wasn’t and never was insurance. Insurance was a symptom, not the problem in itself. The problem with healthcare in America has several problems all of it centered around cost.
An overbearing pharmacological system devoid of competitive forces. No foreign drugs, no foreign medical devices. You open that up and you’d need to sell your pharmaceutical stocks because those bitches would fall like a stone.
No proper regulatory processes in place. Companies can sell drugs for what ever they want, while they sell them for a fraction to foreign countries. Drugs need to be the same across the board. Why does a bag of saline cost $200 dollars when it costs $.01 to make? R & D my ass.

Bottom line obama care made a bad situation worse. It would have been cheaper for everybody if the government just bought 31 million people coverage for 10 years, than this idiotic plan.
[/quote]

I believe I understand completely, I would agree with most of your statement , But insurance maybe was not a problem years ago but today they are definitely are a problem , today they are a cartel controlling all aspects of health care .

Please gold bar me Puss
[/quote]

So we are going to fix that by borrowing 3 trillion dollars from the Chinese and trust the government to do a better job?

37

I’m browsing Yahoo Finance and what-do-know: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/FDA-approves-innovative-apf-3457372288.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=main&asset=&ccode=

Pretty relevant to the topic at hand. It’s products like the one in the article that are going to bring down costs and improve efficiency. Regulators should be focusing on ways to better the process of bringing innovations into the marketplace.

38

[quote]UtahLama wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:
It’s Socialism at it’s finest.

CS[/quote]

I disagree , it is capitalism at it’s finest
[/quote]

True, the respect for private capital and the free decisions of the customers is practically exemplified in the US health care system.

No, really, you cannot even thing “cutthroat competition” without the US health care system coming to mind.

Which is of course why the services get cheaper and better by the minute. [/quote]

You don’t understand the system.
First the problem wasn’t and never was insurance. Insurance was a symptom, not the problem in itself. The problem with healthcare in America has several problems all of it centered around cost.
An overbearing pharmacological system devoid of competitive forces. No foreign drugs, no foreign medical devices. You open that up and you’d need to sell your pharmaceutical stocks because those bitches would fall like a stone.
No proper regulatory processes in place. Companies can sell drugs for what ever they want, while they sell them for a fraction to foreign countries. Drugs need to be the same across the board. Why does a bag of saline cost $200 dollars when it costs $.01 to make? R & D my ass.

Bottom line obama care made a bad situation worse. It would have been cheaper for everybody if the government just bought 31 million people coverage for 10 years, than this idiotic plan.
[/quote]

I believe I understand completely, I would agree with most of your statement , But insurance maybe was not a problem years ago but today they are definitely are a problem , today they are a cartel controlling all aspects of health care .

Please gold bar me Puss
[/quote]

So we are going to fix that by borrowing 3 trillion dollars from the Chinese and trust the government to do a better job?[/quote]

No I would not, but that all would be another thread.

39

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:
It’s Socialism at it’s finest.

CS[/quote]

I disagree , it is capitalism at it’s finest
[/quote]

True, the respect for private capital and the free decisions of the customers is practically exemplified in the US health care system.

No, really, you cannot even thing “cutthroat competition” without the US health care system coming to mind.

Which is of course why the services get cheaper and better by the minute. [/quote]

You don’t understand the system.
First the problem wasn’t and never was insurance. Insurance was a symptom, not the problem in itself. The problem with healthcare in America has several problems all of it centered around cost.
An overbearing pharmacological system devoid of competitive forces. No foreign drugs, no foreign medical devices. You open that up and you’d need to sell your pharmaceutical stocks because those bitches would fall like a stone.
No proper regulatory processes in place. Companies can sell drugs for what ever they want, while they sell them for a fraction to foreign countries. Drugs need to be the same across the board. Why does a bag of saline cost $200 dollars when it costs $.01 to make? R & D my ass.

Bottom line obama care made a bad situation worse. It would have been cheaper for everybody if the government just bought 31 million people coverage for 10 years, than this idiotic plan.
[/quote]

I believe I understand completely, I would agree with most of your statement , But insurance maybe was not a problem years ago but today they are definitely are a problem , today they are a cartel controlling all aspects of health care .

Please gold bar me Puss
[/quote]

I am not saying insurance companies are great, nor that they are not taking advantage, but they aren’t the main problem. If health care was affordable then we wouldn’t need insurance. Cost is the issue.
We are being donkey fucked. But obamacare didn’t help, it joined in and left splinters. Now we are being fucked even harder, so that a few can be fucked microscopically less. It may not hurt quite as add, but your still crapping seamen in the end.

40

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]CSEagles1694 wrote:
It’s Socialism at it’s finest.

CS[/quote]

I disagree , it is capitalism at it’s finest
[/quote]

True, the respect for private capital and the free decisions of the customers is practically exemplified in the US health care system.

No, really, you cannot even thing “cutthroat competition” without the US health care system coming to mind.

Which is of course why the services get cheaper and better by the minute. [/quote]

You don’t understand the system.
First the problem wasn’t and never was insurance. Insurance was a symptom, not the problem in itself. The problem with healthcare in America has several problems all of it centered around cost.
An overbearing pharmacological system devoid of competitive forces. No foreign drugs, no foreign medical devices. You open that up and you’d need to sell your pharmaceutical stocks because those bitches would fall like a stone.
No proper regulatory processes in place. Companies can sell drugs for what ever they want, while they sell them for a fraction to foreign countries. Drugs need to be the same across the board. Why does a bag of saline cost $200 dollars when it costs $.01 to make? R & D my ass.

Bottom line obama care made a bad situation worse. It would have been cheaper for everybody if the government just bought 31 million people coverage for 10 years, than this idiotic plan.
[/quote]

I believe I understand completely, I would agree with most of your statement , But insurance maybe was not a problem years ago but today they are definitely are a problem , today they are a cartel controlling all aspects of health care .

Please gold bar me Puss
[/quote]

I am not saying insurance companies are great, nor that they are not taking advantage, but they aren’t the main problem. If health care was affordable then we wouldn’t need insurance. Cost is the issue.
We are being donkey fucked. But obamacare didn’t help, it joined in and left splinters. Now we are being fucked even harder, so that a few can be fucked microscopically less. It may not hurt quite as add, but your still crapping seamen in the end.
[/quote]

They may not be the main problem but they are a big part of the whole problem.

Some how Americans think you can cut costs to the ninth degree , make a huge profit and do it all cheaper than a nonprofit organization