Thank you and @norse_str3ngth!
I canât believe how much thicker you look. Itâs like a stack of mass has been added everywhere.
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Bro, seriously, your legs are jacked. Everything looks great.
@The_Myth @tsantos Thank you so much people. Obviously the larger appearance is a result of getting leaner, but Iâve gained muscle in just six months from getting very serious again, applying GREAT effort to all my efforts (as much as a day and respective well-being allows me, that is), and once again training⊠the way a bodybuilder should train! That is, with well-thought out body part splits, exercise selection and sequencing.
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As always I need some guidance with posing, which my buddies will soon help me with. Honestly the lower back and glute flab still to go have me nervous as hell!
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Picky, picky, picky.
Looking good!
@xXSeraphimXx I discussed the problems with upper-lower splits and full body routines for MODERN bodybuilding standards in this thread, as elsewhere.
After all the reading Iâve done, associating with my bodybuilding friends, and so forth, I will repeat this again. Training for bodybuilding comes down to the following, and it will never change. It is simple as hell, and itâs what every current bodybuilder does, from those who look like bodybuilders, to decent bodybuilders, to elite bodybuilders! This means, anyone with results, from the ordinary and respectable, all the way to the people who compete in the Olympia!
No amount of reasoning for body part and upper-lower programs matters. No amount of fancy programs with periodization schemes and fancy techniques matters. Thatâs for powerlifting and Olympic lifting.
Hereâs how it is.
- Four or five way split that allows each muscle to be trained once every five to seven days with two or three non-lifting days per week.
- Compound, isolation, and machine exercises.
- Reps: Mostly 8 to 12, sometimes 6 to 8, or higher than 12.
- Sets: 2 to 4 work sets, sometimes more
- Three or four exercises for large muscle groups, with up to 5 for back.
- Proper pre-exhaust and exercise sequencing (sorry, if you have a muscle lagging in size, than just âadding weight to the barâ will not do the trick after the first two or three years of trying to do that!)
- Proper exercise selection to target a segment of a muscle and body type (eg, arm or torso dominant). I do not give a shit about any âscienceâ showing you canât target a portion of a muscle. I really donât!
- Rest periods: as little as needed.
I havenât seen a damn alright or elite bodybuilder do anything else in the current day! And body part and upper-lower programs are riddled with problems for bodybuilding purposesânot general fitnessâthat I can discuss more at another time, and which Iâve discussed in this thread. CT, Tom Venuto, and Clay Hyght have gone over the problems of upper-lower and full-body programs for BB too but also recognize their worth for OTHER purposes.
Also, look at the people who are the most vocal about full body routines and bash body part splits. Name one that took it to a bodybuilding stage (apart from a few exceptions)!
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Even for the natural trainee? All the guys at 3dmj for example do not use splits as far as I am aware of neither do most of their clients stating, naturals need higher frequency.
Or do you not see someone like Alberto Nunez as an alright or elite bodybuilder?
Interesting⊠I am assuming you would feel the same about a push-pull-legs routine? Would you recommend a full bodypart split to a total beginner? I ask because i often recommend a push-pull-legs split to friends who ask how to get started in the gym. (My rationale being that they would have more time and energy to focus on the big lifts and putting on straight mass). Is that just my powerlifting background talking? Because I will reconsider that recommendation after reading your post. I always assumed bodypart splits were for refining an existing physique, not creating one from scratch.
I agree with this. Unassisted lifters do not experience sustained muscle protein synthesis (MPS) for longer than 48 hrs (at the most) after a workout, whereas assisted lifters do (thatâs one of the main effects of anabolicsâextending the MPS window). Thus, IMO natural trainees need to re-stimulate (ie, train) a given bodypart every 48-72 hours or so.
I am actually a fan of the push-pull-legs split for some bodybuilding purposes due specifically to the increased frequency you can hit things with. You still get a lot of focus on individual muscles (tou can emphasize shoulders over chest if its your weak spot, etc).
That said I agree with Brick mostly in terms of what you need to do to be great at the sport.
I do like upper/lower splits for beginners though. They have a tendency to waste too much time on isolation stuff while ignoring the HARD work that compound leg exercises force. Or Back. I like upper/lower and push/pull/legs as a way to force them to focus more on basics rather than 9 kinds of curls on upper body day.
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I agree with all of this! Of course one can build a decent amount or a lot of muscle with upper-lower programs, push-pull programs and full body routines. Itâs been done thousands of times! What also has been done thousands of times (by naturals too!) is building a bodybuilderâs body with split routines!
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Definitely. 100%. Body part splits were popular with natural bodybuilders back in the day as well. The whole 48 hour maximum window of increased protein synthesis for naturals is aggravating to me because the extent of protein synthesis depends in very large part on the growth stimulus and/or microtrauma received. It is not a one size fits all hard rule. And guess whatâŠbody part splits allow a much greater focused stimulus.
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This thread is now my favorite thing to do on T-Nation. Cant wait to see how this goes.
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What do you mean by âsome bodybuilding purposesâ?
I have, for the most part always used a legs/push/pull split because it allowed for not only higher frequency but, easier specialization. It is easier to add a few sets or exercises for a body part on one day and taking from another knowing I will be hitting it again soon. As opposed to adding and extra shoulder day and having everything hit even later.
Right. And just because there is more frequent protein synthesis, it does not mean that there is more frequent, actually accumulated growth!
Besides, the logic is too simplistic. Just because the protein synthesis slows down after 72 hours, it doesnât mean there is regression. And just how fast is a natural going to grow anyway past the first year?
Anyway, a properly designed split provides stimulation more than once every five to seven days anyway. People can see this if they just open their mind up and use their knowledge, with which they usually contradict themselves with. For example, many will say stick to the basics because they hit everything, spread out stimuli to the whole body. Well, with that reasoning, a split does the job!
As stated above for examples: if I hit chest and biceps at a session, I am training my chest, shoulders, and triceps with my work for my chest. So if I come in two to three days later and do a shoulder and triceps workout, with dips included, I am again training my chest, shoulders, and triceps, albeit with different degrees of stimulation, one with a great deal of stimulation and one wth lesser stimulation, though sure enough stimulation that there isnât any regression. Same goes for back. If I work my back and then two to three days later perform stiff legged deadlifts on leg day, Iâve worked my lats and upper back and erectors twice in six to seven days! Anyone who deadlifts, even with stiff legs, knows the enormous pump and soreness that a properly performed stiff legged deadlift can give to the lats and traps. Also, if one includes a bent leg variation in their back workout (rack lockout, standard, or trap bar) and then trains legs two to three days later, they are training legs twice per week. Again, with different degrees of stimulation.
And anyway, for those who love to talk research, Brad Schoenfeldâs research has shown a great deal of volume per workout per muscle group with a frequency of five to seven days a week WORKS! See CTâs last article on muscle building to read about this.
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Yes, one can look at the thousands of natural bodybuilders whoâve succeeded with split routines. I am on TRT since 22 years old, with normal physiological levels of T and use a split. So with no supra physiological amount of T in my blood, there is no extraordinary protein synthesis going on in my body past the 48 to 72 hour mark. If there was an advantage, I would have added a shit ton more muscle to my frame in the past decade!
See what Iâve said here severe times about the frequency issue in my last post and in an earlier post in this thread. If all naturals NEEDED more frequency with direct session for each muscle group, then we wouldnât see the success of naturals who use them. Dude, I love that you participate in this thread I created and your recent compliments. So donât take this question the wrong way. Iâm asking out of curiosity: Do you associate closely with bodybuilders, both drug aided AND natural? That is, are you on the âinside?â I donât mean compete per se.
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Are you satisfied with your results? Thatâs what matters.