T Nation

Lean Mass Cycle?

Was wondering the best cycle to put on lean mass. I’m 6"1, 195, 26 years old, and 6% body fat. Will have access to deca, t200, sust, winny v, dbol, maybe primo and equipoise and clomid. is it better to just go with deca/eq and winny v for 8 weeks, or start heavy w/ dbol, test and deca for 4 weeks then switch to equi, winny and primo? Need help! Want to end up 10-15lbs heavier at same bodyfat.

Look up “GRAMABOL” on the t-mag search engine.

Try stacking 750mg of sust + 600mg week of primo for 8 weeks and you’ll gain a helluva lot more than 10 lbs if you don’t eat like a chick.

Thanks for the advice, but i’ve done the huge mass cycle before and put on like 30-35 lbs, but it’s way too obvious that way, not looking for a massive weight gain, just a little bigger but still shredded and stronger…and no i can’t get anavar!

If all you want is 10-15 lb then I would do that with a reasonably heavy (but sane)
stack for 2 weeks. You should certainly achieve it. You might want to do a second, after four weeks, so that you’ll wind up staying 10-15 lb heavier(on the other hand, there may be no need.) There’s no point in suppressing your
natural T for 8 weeks straight for the sake
of gaining just 10-15 lb. No way would I do an 8-week cycle for just that.

Bill what would you recommend for that “sane but heavy” 2 week cycle?

Personal favorite is 50 mg/day TA for 12 days,
with loading dose of 150 mg on first day; and Nandrosol 70 sprays twice per day. No kidding,
that combo did better for me than the same
but with Dianabol 50 mg/day in place of the
Nandrosol, or with Androsol. Those other two
are also options.

Another option is testosterone propionate
for 10 days at 150 mg/day, with loading dose
of 450 mg.

Another option would be Primo up to a gram
on day 1, and 200 mg each half-week through
the middle of week 2;, stacked with a Class
II as with the trenbolone example.

One athlete I consulted with had tremendous
results with methyltestosterone being a large
part of the equation, and heavily dosed, but
with no problems in the blood tests, but I’d
have to go look to see what his usage was
exactly. The total anabolic usage was, as in
all these examples, in the gram per week
region or a little more (less than one and
a half.)

Winstrol can also be stacked to advantage
in any of these examples.


Oral Winstrol 50-100 mg/day, staying at
the lower end if you are using other 17-alkylateds; and injected Winstrol at
200 mg on day 1 followed by 50-100 mg/day
for the rest of week 1. Week 2 should be
oral if Winstrol is used. If the higher
Winstrol dose is used, there preferably shouldn’t be any other 17-alkylateds and
the total steroid dose for the week is
still kept in the gram or not much more range.
So if 100 mg/day Winstrol is being used,
other steroids might need to be reduced to
keep the whole thing reasonable.

I omitted mentioning below that Anadrol can substitute for Dianabol, except it is
preferable to use Dianabol if testosterone
is being used, and probably preferable if
Deca is being used. The Anadrol dosage should
be divided into at least four doses per day,
and a total of 50-150 mg/day is reasonable.
At the higher end, you’d be reducing other
anabolics, and would not have any other 17-alkylateds.

Bill, why is d-bol preferable to Anadrol when on test? I was under the impression they contained the same active drug, albeit packaged and presented differently. Please enlighten me.

Thanks Bill. I know i could get winny, and pretty sure primo would be easy to get, but how would i use something like t200 or sust in a 2 week cycle? i can’t get trenbolone. i think deca would be out of the question because it lasts too long right?

Bill, could I stack test prop, dbol, and winny v to get about 15lbs in 2 weeks? and could 200mg of primo be used in the 4 off weeks w/out interrupting natural test recovery (I have clomid)? Thanks again Bill

Anadrol and Dianabol are two different drugs, oxymetholone vs methandrostenolone (also called methandienone.) Anadrol in combination with testosterone is quite nasty, VERY easily produces gyno, and gives all the adverse effects Anadrol has been noted for. For some reason however this is peculiar to the combination with testosterone. With non-aromatizing steroids Anadrol gives actually
less side effects than Dianabol. Part or
all of that is because Anadrol does not aromatize (I know some others say it does
but no aromatized metabolite has ever been detected, and from what is known about the mechanism of action of aromatase, oxymetholone
cannot be aromatized) whereas Dianabol does aromatize.

Testosterone enanthate can be used on short cycle if dosing is limited to 750 mg on day 1 and then nothing else. Obviously, other anabolics would be needed to fill in week 2.

The test prop, Dianabol, and Winny cycle
certainly have the potential to give 15 lb
in 2 weeks (assuming the user is not already well above his natural limit.) If Winstrol can be afforded at 50 mg/day, and testosterone propionate can be obtained for 150 mg/day, I’d leave the Dianabol out because the total dose is already as high as you’d want, and the Dianabol would be adding another drug that aromatizes (you already have an issue there with the TP) and another drug that is 17-alkylated (you already have an issue there with the Winstrol), and when you are using a gram per week of T, and especially with Winstrol also, your non-androgen-receptor mediated activity is already pretty well covered. If anything further were added to the stack, I’d increase Class I, not Class II, so i wouldn’t add the Dianabol.

The Winstrol, if 50 mg/day, would be a loading dose of 200 mg, then 50 mg/day for the rest of week 1 only. In week 2, Winstrol oral (you can drink the Depot; use a sryinge to measure out four doses per day of .25 mL or five of .20 mL.)

If Clomid is used it is quite possible and likely that one could get away with 100 mg Primo twice per week, if that’s what you meant
by 200 mg; and maybe possible with 200 mg twice per week but I would not do that because that is enough to certainly be considered “on,” and you’d be “on” all the time then (if you then go into another two week cycle after the four weeks of Primo use.) On the other hand, if you are planning to do just this one cycle for now, with a month or more before the next, then it would be interesting to try 200 mg/week Primo twice per week during the first 4 weeks after the 2 week cycle. I’d be very interested in the results – I’ve seen that this dosing of Primo when starting from scratch (no steroids) does not inhibit T substantially, but it’s a little tougher test for it to allow full recovery.

BTW, I really ought to add something. I’ve mentioned before about 400 mg/week Primo not being very inhibitory, but (I was just taking it for granted) the reader certainly ought to know that these cases were with concurrent Clomid use.

How awesome is the the T-mag forum? Where else could I get answers from Bill Roberts so quick? Thanks a lot Bill, I will certainly look forward to doing mnay of the cycles over the summer. Hopefully test prop won’t be a problem to obtain. And yes w/ the primo I was thinking of adding some on the 2 “on” weeks, but won’t look to add any on the “off” weeks, beacuse I agree that off should be off, and I don’t need to have ED problems! LOL And I won’t do a cycle w/out Clomid. Thanks Bill…