T Nation

Lean Bulk Cycle

Hows this cycle look for lean mass gains, cycle number 2

Week 1: 1500mg Cyp
Week 2-9: 750mg Cyp
Week 1-3: 100mg Prop EOD

In the 5 weeks wait to pct I might do some anavar, the var will be run for 40 days @ 50mg daily, I might be adding Yohimbe HCL injectable.

Also running letrozole throughout cycle @ 0.5mg EOD for gyno prevention, this will be started 1 week prior to the cycle, anything wrong with the above mentioned?

Pretty high dosages, especially up front. Why are you runnin the prop? What was your first cycle?

I don’t know a lot about letro dosages, but isn’t 0.5 mg EOD on the high side? <<–I’m just going by memory, so I could very well be wrong.

Either way, dont start it before the cycle.

Why no HCG? Do you not like your balls?

Why not just do cyp, dbol for the first 4 weeks and throw in another compound like deca or EQ instead of cyp and prop. I would also recommend HCG too unless you want to possibly have balls like rasins hahaha

the most id frontload is a gram man… no need for the extra 500 IMo. id say dont even bother frontloading and make the cycle a week or 2 longer if you can would be of more benefit.

I wouldn’t bother with the prop

The prop is in the place of dbol kicker - Hate the bloated look.

Dont care about small nuts on cycle, pct will have hcg,clomid,nolva and aromasin.

Letro doses are 0.3mg E3d.

I already started and skipped the prop, did 1000mg the first week, soon going into week 2.

Oh and BSC its my second cycle Ill grow plenty on test only no need for adding more compounds bud, im clued up just needed some more opinions. Thanks a mil guys.

If I frontloaded the test 1g the first week how long till it kicks in, I know cyp is usually 4-6 weeks.

Thanks again for the input guys and sorry im only replying now had a bit of a struggle finding this thread.

SlabBiE :slight_smile:

Run hcg throughout…it is not a PCT drug–it is an on-cycle drug. It will keep you active and facilitate better recovery

It can be used as a pct drug, it mimics LH thus stimulating testosterone release, I have many studies which proves its effectiveness in pct.

Please link to these studies

I full yunderstand what it does, thats why I recommend it during the cycle. HCG for PCT is an outdated relic of yesteryear. Runnin it during PCT, and neglect it for your cycle is stupid for two reasons:

  1. You shut your natural testosterone production down unnecessarily during cycle. A dose of 250 iu 2-3x/week has been shown to maintain testicular output. this makes recovery easier once you come off (or at least doesn’t hinder it) since your balls were never allowed to go dormant and you only have to restore the ‘HP’ portion of the HPTA equation for recovery.

  2. The entire point of PCT is to RECOVER FROM SUPPRESSION. HCG suppresses endogenous testoerone output, precisely by the LH mimic process that you describe. The Hypothalmus recognizes this and ceases to release gonadotropin releaseing hormones to the pituitary, which shuts down your natural LH. This is counter productive to the goals.

Frankly I will read your studies (as doubtful as I am that they even exist) but this really is not even open to debate by this point. You would be wise to heed the advice given. Or don’t. I will sleep fine regardless of your decision.

You are pretty clued up… lol yeah.
Then why do you need advice to stupid questions like when will it kick in? Thats basic stuff.
You have rejected all advice thus far, whats the point of your post?

But anyway, contrary to what others have said your cycle looks fine. You are right to start the letro early to let blood levels stabilise however your dose is too high. I would start with 0.25mg EOD alhough I dont use letro as an AI only for gyno reversal.

Just went back and read you are waiting 5 weeks to start PCT? Lol.

SB

Okay cyps halflife is 10.5 days, thus 10.5 days after 750mg is 375mg, 21 days after last shot is 187.5mg. 31.5 days is 93.25mg - Wait a bit longer and its almost around natural levels. perfect to start pct…

Hahahaha you guys are really duh, im from another forum and fuck you really are stupid…

Even if you pin 750mg test with hcg your still gonna get shut down!!
Ill post up those studies tommorow going to bed.

[quote]Slabbie wrote:
Okay cyps halflife is 10.5 days, thus 10.5 days after 750mg is 375mg, 21 days after last shot is 187.5mg. 31.5 days is 93.25mg - Wait a bit longer and its almost around natural levels. perfect to start pct…
[/quote]

According to your logic, the cyp will never run out, just diminish increasingly towards zero - but never reach it. So why run PCT at all? LOL

Who said anything about not getting shut down if using hCG? Read the posts wise-guy.
Hcg will keep your testes full and responsive to the LH signal. You will get shut down from 200mg of test, heck even hCG can shut you down at higher doses.

But you know best.

SB

Everyone seems to have read this:

“Remember I mentioned that LH, FSH and TSH has the same alpha sub-unit? So, by using Ovidrel, you will have a “TRIPPLE” effect. Firstly, your LH effect will increase testosterone production, secondly the FSH effect will have testicular tissue enhancement and Sertoli cell stimulation leading to higher sperm production, and thirdly the TSH effect producing more T4 to convert to T3. Pregnyl consists basically of the Beta sub-unit. That’s why we test B-HCG in urine for OTC pregnancy tests. So, Pregnyl only has a LH effect”

…and got all excited about Ovidrel.

Part of that is not all true. Pregnyl’s beta sub unit has nothing to do with it’s LH mimicking effect. Pregnyl and Ovidrel’s beta sub units both differ to those of LH, FSH and TSH.

Pregynl ALSO has an alpha sub unit identical to LH, FSH, and TSH just like Ovidrel. Pregnyl does not consist of “basically the beta sub-unit.”

I have posted links a few times before. From the ‘National Library of Medicine’ on Pregnyl: "

Human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG), a polypeptide hormone produced by the human placenta, is composed of an alpha and a beta sub-unit. The alpha sub-unit is essentially identical to the alpha sub-units of the human pituitary gonadotropins, luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), as well as to the alpha sub-unit of human thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH). The beta sub-units of these hormones differ in amino acid sequence."

And heg are you a retard?

When you inject an exogenous test soource into your body, endogenous production comes to an halt…Got that?? Good

Now after the last pin of cyp, say 750mg it will take 30-35 days before blood plasma levels reach below 100mg. Got that?? Well done

Your body makes about 70mg test weekly so now you can start pct, your body wont start producing test when bloodlevels are supraphysiological!

[quote]Slabbie wrote:
Okay cyps halflife is 10.5 days, thus 10.5 days after 750mg is 375mg, 21 days after last shot is 187.5mg. 31.5 days is 93.25mg - Wait a bit longer and its almost around natural levels. perfect to start pct…

[/quote]

LOL we’re getting a half life lecture on someone who doesn’t really understand half lives?

First off, Test Cyp half life is about 7 days per the medical literature. But I will let you slide there. Where you really go off the beaten path, and show you have no clue what you’re talking about is here: “thus 10.5 days after 750mg is 375mg”

While the math is correct, your logic isn’t. This is true only for a single 750 mg injection. HOWEVER, you have been injecting 750 mg for the past 10 weeks. Therefore, your blood/depot levels are actually HIGHER than 750 mg after your last shot. They are actually approaching the 1200 mg range.

Therefore, you need to consider the following:
Week 1: 600 mg
Week 2: 300 mg
Week 3: 150 mg
Week 4: 75 mg

Proper time to start PCT is when blood levels approach around 100 mg/week. So sometime in between weeks 3-4 after your last shot.

I agree with you that T-Nation traditionally does not really put a lot of emphasis on blood levels when considering PCT start time, but if you are going to lecture us at least know what the fuck you are talking about.

[quote]
Hahahaha you guys are really duh, im from another forum and fuck you really are stupid…[/quote]

I don’t know what a “duh” is. Is this another example of stupid kids using words like “fail” as a noun (i.e. you are a fail)? If you want to call people stupid, it helps to have at least a passable grasp of the English language.

[quote]

Even if you pin 750mg test with hcg your still gonna get shut down!![/quote]

Your fragmented sentence is incomprehensible.

[quote]
Ill post up those studies tommorow going to bed.[/quote]

I shall await with bated breath.

[quote]Slabbie wrote:
Everyone seems to have read this:

“Remember I mentioned that LH, FSH and TSH has the same alpha sub-unit? So, by using Ovidrel, you will have a “TRIPPLE” effect. Firstly, your LH effect will increase testosterone production, secondly the FSH effect will have testicular tissue enhancement and Sertoli cell stimulation leading to higher sperm production, and thirdly the TSH effect producing more T4 to convert to T3. Pregnyl consists basically of the Beta sub-unit. That’s why we test B-HCG in urine for OTC pregnancy tests. So, Pregnyl only has a LH effect”

…and got all excited about Ovidrel.

Part of that is not all true. Pregnyl’s beta sub unit has nothing to do with it’s LH mimicking effect. Pregnyl and Ovidrel’s beta sub units both differ to those of LH, FSH and TSH.

Pregynl ALSO has an alpha sub unit identical to LH, FSH, and TSH just like Ovidrel. Pregnyl does not consist of “basically the beta sub-unit.”

I have posted links a few times before. From the ‘National Library of Medicine’ on Pregnyl: "

Human chorionic gonadotropin (HCG), a polypeptide hormone produced by the human placenta, is composed of an alpha and a beta sub-unit. The alpha sub-unit is essentially identical to the alpha sub-units of the human pituitary gonadotropins, luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), as well as to the alpha sub-unit of human thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH). The beta sub-units of these hormones differ in amino acid sequence."

[/quote]

LOL these are your fucking “studies proving hcg’s effectiveness during pct”???/

What in the hell do you think TSH and beta subunits have to do with the simple statement that “hcg is suppressive to endogenous LH/FSH production” and that “HCG will maintain endogenous testosterone production”???

Be honest here, did you just google HCG studies and copy paste the first thing you found? Because that’s what it looks like. How you have drawn the “conclusions” that you have based on this leaves me scratching my head.

Slabbie - I was just laughing at your faulty logic. I think you are confusing biological half-life with exponential decay.

For the record, I am also amused by your poor grammar and utter disregard for the knowledge, experience, and respect of veteran posters like VT and SB. We are all still waiting for these “studies” by the way.

Since you are “from another forum” and everyone here is “duh” and “really stupid”, why don’t you go back to the other forum from which you came? Must have been a GREAT forum if you left to come here for advice!

Or did you come here because you were tired of getting beat-down and schooled because of your dumbass, know-it-all attitude?

[quote]Slabbie wrote:
Hahahaha you guys are really duh, im from another forum and fuck you really are stupid…
[/quote]

he’s right. We are SO duh.

Especially Balla, he’s the most duh of us all

[quote]jimbopv123 wrote:
the most id frontload is a gram man… no need for the extra 500 IMo. id say dont even bother frontloading and make the cycle a week or 2 longer if you can would be of more benefit.[/quote]

I am curious about this. What are you basing this on? Personal preference or scientific?

I was planning on front-loading on my next run in a very similar fashion to OP without the prop. Comparitively speaking you would need to add almost 5 weeks to a cycle to see the same levels as the front-loaded cycle (if I did my math right).

Not to mention, 1g weekly, is still only half of what the BB’s I know consider a base for their cycles.