Leader and Anchor

I’m not sure exactly what you are asking. Do you mean for the Anchor, doing 5’s PRO instead of PR sets? That is certainly an option, and if you are doing cleans I, personally, would do those with 5’s PRO, or even 3’s PRO, since I tend to think of the clean as an exercise best done with low rep sets. For deadlifts, I would tend to do the PR sets, but if you feel like you need to keep deadlifting restricted then it is fine to do 5’s PRO for the deadlift.

If you are asking wether or not to do 5’s PRO for deadlift and clean during the Leader, then I am not sure what alternative you would have in mind but I would just stick to the 5’s PRO. Personally, by the way, I would not do the SSL for cleans.

The first part of your reply answered my question thoroughly!
I was in a hurry writing the question, I now see I certanly missed some details!

Thank you for you time and help revchad! I really needed this!

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Is the 5’s pro is the only option for the leader?

No you could go for pr’s on all weeks for ‘leader’ then pr’s/jokers on 3/1 weeks for ‘anchor’. Personally most cycles i go for pr’s on 3/1 weeks and throw jokers in on anchor, supplemental work varies to suit cycle. I keep setting pr’s so i see no need to go to 5 pro for my main lift as yet.

Thank you Shaun87! This was really great, as I feel kinda demotivated by the 5’s Pro when I hit the great days. Kind of you for sharing this with me, thank you!

It seems to really depend on what else is going on in the cycle and overall plan. I have seen some Leaders in which Wendler recommends going for PRs, but most of them see to be 5’s PRO, just the 5 reps. It is all part of the push and pull. Only doing 5’s leaves room for more elsewhere, going for PRs requires pulling something else back. In general, if you see Wendler give, or give an ok to, a program with 5’s PRO, I take it that Wendler intends for it to be done with that, and not just changing it out for PR sets. But, if you want to do PR sets, you can find or make Leaders specifically like that (with the appropriate reduction in other things).

Personally, I think Wendler knows what he is doing and recommends 5’s PRO for a reason. I find that if I am having a good day with it, I just enjoy it, and focus all the more on form and bar speed. It is all part of the process for building up to the PRs and longterm progress.

What the hell is 5 pros?

revchad, I really enjoy your replies, as you deltail every part of your answer thorough. And somehow you always makes me pick the smarter thing, rather than picking the thing that stimulates my ego the most. Thank you so much for this answer! Escpelly thanks for the reminder of just enjoying the great days when they’re there and focus on the bar speed and form, cause that’s really what’s it all about!

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Because of your great answers, I hope to steal some more information from your brain revchad!
What would you consider best for supplemental, for building strength in the leader? SSL or BBS?
I think that BBS insures great bar speed if using the FSL pecentages, and it delivers great volume. But on the other side SSL delivers great training effect on the strength due to the percentages, but the volume is lower.
I am gonna try out both for sure, but I have a meet coming up, and would like to know which I should go for first. I have a program Jim helped me with, where I combined them, but I’d like to get your (and other value opinions) on this!
Thank you in advance!

Do you have Jims book, Beyond 531? It is described in the book.

Yes, I have them all. What are you refering to, cause I don’t exactly know where you read about SSL (other than in the strength challenge), BBS and about leader or anchors?

I would just do the program Jim helped with. He certainly knows more than me and other folk likely to chime in here. In any case, lifting is a longterm thing, and you already know that the important part is to try out both BBS and SSL. I doubt the order matters. Good luck at the meet!

I will certainly do the program Jim helped me with first, as I am really thankful for all the help and advice I’ve been given. The only thing is what to do afterward - I wrote it out wrong beforehand, I’ll do what I’ve programmet first, and thinking of what to do for the meet (after the meet in about 10 weeks). - after writing it all up like this, I can clearly see that I should first do what I have programmet, and evaluate on that for the programming to come later on :slight_smile:

Thank you for your advice and for wishing me luck!

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Hi! I know this is an old post but I was just wondering about the 5s PRO in the leader phase. Isn’t the 5s pro more intense than the usual 531? You’re doing 5 reps in during the 2nd and 3rd week in comparison to doing 3+ and 1+. 5 reps for the 95% seems a lot harder than the 1+ for 95%. Thanks!

If the training max ™ is set properly, one would be doing at least 5 reps, and generally more than 5 reps, on the 1+ day, so 5’s PRO is generally not more work. Keep in mind that Wendler specifies that before going into a new leader you should make sure that the TM is not too high, usually no higher than 85% of 1RM.

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It’s been over half a year since I’ve calculated my 1rm. I think it’s probably time I recalculated it. I’ve been only getting an extra rep or two for my top sets for quite a long time now.

Do we have to use an 85% TM for the anchor too? Essentially could i also use the usual 531 for my leader if I don’t go overboard with the prs? Thanks!

The anchor is done after the leaders so you’ve added the 5/10lb increases at least twice already so its already a bit more than 85%. Also you test or reset your TM more frequently now so it should always be between 85 and 90%

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Yes, it seems that lowering your TM would be wise.

I am not sure what you are asking, but here is an attempt to address your question. Generally one would plan out a set of leaders and anchors, most commonly 2 leaders and one anchor. You make sure the TM is no more than 85% before the first leader, and otherwise you just add the 5-10 lbs at the end of each cycle until the anchor is done.

You an use normal 5/3/1 PR sets in a leader. If you are doing that, you would still start with the same sort of 85% TM at the beginning. Wendler has a few programs that include PR sets in the leaders in 5/3/1 Forever, so I highly recommend that you get and read that book. But, in general, yes you can use an original 5/3/1 style with PR sets in the anchor, and you would still use a no-more-than 85% TM for that.

Regarding “if I don’t go overboard with the prs,” I think it is more not going overboard on everything else. If you do 5’s PRO, then you can do more supplemental work (like Boring But Big), but if you are pushing for PRs something needs to be lessened, such as by keeping supplemental work to just 5x5 First Set Last

Thank you for replying. My bad, It skipped my mind that I would have already added the 5/10 lbs increment twice by the time I’ve reached my anchor.

Anyway I’ll give lowering my TM to 85% a try. Thanks again!

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It skipped my mind that I would have already added the increment twice by the time I reach the anchor phase. I should really test my 1rm more often.

Thanks!

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