oh yeah thank you!
yeah i just got a lot of commetns about mixing skim and whey and then pouring it on cereal as its a bad idea! but ill take it from you and a lot of the members on it that it has no effect… i apprecatie it… because ill eat 2 bowls of cereal and a banana now instead of just 1 bowl for breakfast to get some mroe complex carbs!
and start the next workout come monday! thanx a lot terry!
I’d really have to read what was written or hear what you were told, but guessing, I think someone may have mixed their whey protein with some sort of fruit and had it congeal on 'em a bit because they let it sit around too long or let it bake in the heat (say a car between classes?)
When someone says something to you that you just don’t understand or that doesn’t make a lot of sense to you, there’s nothing wrong with asking them to explain things a little better to you, so that you understand. You’re not arguing with 'em, and you may ultimately ignore their advice, but people love to explain what they mean. (grin)
Whatever they meant, you’ll be fine mixing the whey and skim milk, LB, and having it with your cereal. Just upgrade to slow-cook oatmeal when you’re able to.
Im gonna ditch the mixing whey and skim and just put skim in my cereal and have an 8oz water and 1 scoop whey shake on the side…
the cereal gets soggy really really fast when mixed with whey i think it has some effect… and when its just with skim cereal tastes 100x better…
would u reccomend this for a PWO shake?
2 scoops whey protein (40g of protein)
12 oz of water
1/2 cup of oats ( should i use dry or get the packets of like cinnamon sugar or cinnamon apple) for sugary and prob a higher gi?
Aite a little update since i havent heard from u in a while
by they way im eating 6 meals + a PWO shake on resistance days… 6 meals on just cardio days
i ordered up 10 lbs of dextrose for 10 bucks and will be getting this for my PWO shake 50g of carbs and 26g of protein so i can balance the equation with 1 scoop whey and 50g of carbs from dex mix with 12 oz water
Also I need some more suggestions for P+F meals… i have almonds / chicken/ and veggies for 1 and a chicken salad with olive oil and a bag of mixed veggies for the other…
any other combo’s u can think of … they get quite boring sometimes.
for my 4 carb meals i include oatmeal, whole wheat bread, whole wheat cereal, brown rice, sweet potatoes / yams, and every once in a blue moon some whole wheat pasta… but not a big fan because i dont like many sauces… just olive oil on salads
here is a new breakdown
Breakfast 5:45(P+C): 1-1.5 cup of oatmeal / 2-2.5 cups of whole wheat cereal
8 oz skim milk (only w/ cereal) water with oatmeal
1 banana (mix with oatmeal if i have it)
1 scoop whey in 8 oz water
Workout 7-8:30
PWO Shake 8:45 - If i have resistance training
1 scoop whey, 50g of carbs from dex, 12 oz water
PWO meal or Meal 2(P+C): 10:15- 5 oz of tuna, 1/2 cup of oatmeal, apple
Meal 3 1:15(P+C): 4 egg beater omlette toss in some veggies, orange, 1/2 cup of brown rice
Meal 4 4:15 (P+C): 5 oz of Turkey on whole wheat bread with some veggies… need to add something here
Meal 5 7:15(P+F): Bag of mixed Veggies (8 oz), 1 cup of salad, 5 oz of chicken, 1/4 cup of almonds (my favorite meal of the day)
Meal 6 (P+F) 10:15 or pre-bed: 1 cup of cottage cheese, 1 tablespoon Peanut butter
there 6 meals comprised of starchy(complex carbs) and 2 P+F meals… only having 2 meals i can only incorporate 2 fat sources as i will vary olive oil and almonds and also peanut butter for my 3 fat choices
any other suggestions you may have fire back… ive made an outline to ur new diet tell me what u think about that and the PWO shake using dextrose instead of gatorade powder… prob a very big improvement huh?
and does dex mix well with water and whey? and do u suggest 12oz of water?
[quote] would u reccomend this for a PWO shake?
2 scoops whey protein (40g of protein)
12 oz of water
1/2 cup of oats ( should i use dry or get the packets of like cinnamon sugar or cinnamon apple) for sugary and prob a higher gi?[/quote]
LB, what I generally do is give people P, F and C numbers to hit and then leave it up to them to put together meals that hit those numbers. As it relates to sugar, though, it’s something less than ideal. Sugar is a molecule made up of glucose and fructose. Glucose refills muscle glycogen, which is the goal PWO. Fructose is processed in the liver and refils liver glycogen, not the goal PWO. Calorie for calorie, starchy carbs off of the approved list will do a better job of helping you to build a lean physique.
by they way im eating 6 meals + a PWO shake on resistance days… 6 meals on just cardio days
You should be consuming a PWO shake and a PWO meal, both with that 2:1 ratio of starchy carbs to protein that I recommended.
Also I need some more suggestions for P+F meals… i have almonds / chicken/ and veggies for 1 and a chicken salad with olive oil and a bag of mixed veggies for the other.
Check out Chef Lisa Marie’s thread on our sister site … http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopicMwa.do?id=1498939
Another thread that will give you some good ideas … http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopicMwa.do?id=1592674
and does dex mix well with water and whey? and do u suggest 12oz of water?
Yup! (grin) The amount of water is up to you. My PWO drinks are 2 liters. Have you read up on Surge and how much water you should use and why that’s important?
there 6 meals comprised of starchy(complex carbs) and 2 P+F meals… only having 2 meals i can only incorporate 2 fat sources as i will vary olive oil and almonds and also peanut butter for my 3 fat choices
You can have up to 5g of fat in any P+C meal.
here is a new breakdown
It’s looking pretty good, LB. Give it a whirl and see where it takes you. Go ahead and post your results week by week. Any recommendations I would make at this point are going to be based on your week-by-week results.
the diet isnt going so well i lost 3 lbs and am down to 137 in weight even taking in a good 2960 calories 275g carbs 240g protein and 100g of fat
it must have to do with working out for 1 hr a day and then working 10-14 hr days
i dont know what it is… i mean i eat my meals, but slowly because i am constantly working and on my feet
also i do have a PWO meal and PWO shake on resistance days… on cardio days there is no PWO shake
i have read the thread on some of the new recipes and they are good looking, but i dont vary up the meats very often i stick strictly to the lean meats and nothing else really…
i eat totally clean and havent cheated in about 1 month… ive been eating that constant diet over n over and havent changed it stuck straight to it… the foods taste good and dont mind eating them day in and day out…
i switch up tuna, chicken, turkey, shrimp, eggs for my lean meats
for complex carbs i take in brown rice, sweet potatoes/yams, oatmeal, whole grain cereal, whole grain bread, and of course a ton of veggies and 3 pieces of fruit a day (apple/banana/orange)
and for fats i get them from olive/flax oil, peanut butter, and almonds
i think im failing i dont know why, but for some reason getting stronger in the gym on a 4x6-8 reps… hitting the compound exercises a lil more and harder with more weight works damn well… maxes have been going up a bit also
i still drink a good gallon of water or so a day, but seem to be losing a bit of weight…
maybe i need to go see a doctor or nutritonist? any other advice? really slippin here and its not going well… im starting to get close to depressed
i have also read about Surge… what flavor would u suggest a lot of people say origional… and its about what 30 bucks for 4 lbs of it… i know its very beneficial… but i have a ton of whey… i might give it a try
let me know a lil more about it i read a ton about it… it gives great carbs/protein post workout… and its something that is perfect for u PWO shake wise…
im a try this dextrose out first and then maybe some Surge… flavor suggestion?
Nope, you’re not failing, LB. We’re establishing baselines and figuring out what your body needs. Some people require a caloric intake well above 20 times body weight. That’s a lot of calories.
I need you to go back to the numbers I gave you originally. It’s not going to work if I’m giving you numbers and you’re doing something different and then you come back to me, telling me it isn’t working.
6 meals per day
150g of protein per day (not 240)
25g of protein every meal (6 x 25 = 150)
75g of fat per day (not 100)
365g of carbs, most of them starchy, except for the measured amount of fruit and beans you consume
Throw in a few veggies at any meal you’re not eating fruit or beans.
Starchy carbs are defined as oatmeal (slow cook!), sweet potatoes, yams, whole wheat pasta, brown rice
Shoot for 90g of starchy carbs in your 4 P+C meals.
Skip the “tons of veggies.” Have a little on any meal you don’t have fruit or beans. the reason I say that is that veggies are filling, and we’re going to keep going up in your calories (carbs) any week you don’t gain weight.
How many days a week are you working out again?
i think im failing i dont know why, but for some reason getting stronger in the gym on a 4x6-8 reps… hitting the compound exercises a lil more and harder with more weight works damn well… maxes have been going up a bit also
Nope that’s perfect. Keep doing what you’re doing.
i have also read about Surge… what flavor would u suggest a lot of people say origional… and its about what 30 bucks for 4 lbs of it… i know its very beneficial… but i have a ton of whey… i might give it a try
Surge goes down easy. But adding it into a plan that isn’t giving you the results you want isn’t going to make everything better. Finish up your whey and get Surge as soon as you can (as soon as you can afford it), and let’s focus on your plan and what you’re eating. It’s your plan that needs to be fixed/adjusted/tweaked. Surge is an extremely useful tool, and it will help, but we’ve got to get your diet right first.
In answer to your question, my favorite flavor, hands down, is the original. (big grin)
the 6 meals a day isnt a hard thing to follow at all… that is no problem
with the first 3 containing P+starchy carbs which u suggested first)
Meal 1 P+C: 2-2.5 cups of All Bran/Special K Protein Plus, 1 banana, 8 oz protein shake, 8 oz of skim milk = 35g of protein, 110g of carbs, 5g of fat
workout
PWO Shake = 1 scoop of whey, 50g of carbs from dextrose = 25g of protein, 50g of carbs
Meal 2 P+C: 5 oz of chicken, 1 cup of oatmeal, orange, 1 hard boiled egg = 30g of protein, 90g of carbs, 9g of fat
Meal 3 P+C: Whole Wheat Tuna/Turkey Sandwich, Apple (need to find a way to get more carbs into this meal?) maybe 1/2 cup of brown rice or some sweet potatoes on the side? = 30g of protein, 54g of carbs, 5g of fat
Meal 4 P+F: 1 cup egg beaters mixed with 1 cup of veggies, 1/4 cup of almonds
= Protein 27g, Carbs 10g, Fat, 20g
Meal 5 P+F: 5 oz of chicken, 8oz of mixed veggies (Broccoli, Califlour, Carrots), 1 cup salad, 1 tablespoon olive oil = 30g of protein, Carbs 11g, Fat 20g
Meal 6 P+F: 1 cup cottage cheese (fat free), 1 tablespoon peanut butter
27g Protein, 6g of carbs, 17g of fat
Shoot for 90g of starchy carbs in your 4 P+C meals.
– thats literally almost 1 1/4 cup of oatmeal along with a fruit and a protein source and trying to eat during work all that may take quite some time 
but i will give it a shot
Skip the “tons of veggies.” Have a little on any meal you don’t have fruit or beans. the reason I say that is that veggies are filling, and we’re going to keep going up in your calories (carbs) any week you don’t gain weight.
i have fruit with my first 3 meals, so that means i can only have 2 veggie servings because i woulndt want to have any with cottage cheese and peanut butter… ill make sure i stick to good green veggies then
How many days a week are you working out again?
5 day split and 1 day of cardio, sundays are off
Keep me interested on Surge! Origional flavor and tell me how the hell it comes out to a 2L PWO drink! that soudns interesting
thanx for the help again and there is the outline up above! hope it helps thanks again Terry!
-Bob
Meal 1 P+C: 2-2.5 cups of All Bran/Special K Protein Plus, 1 banana, 8 oz protein shake, 8 oz of skim milk = 35g of protein, 110g of carbs, 5g of fat.
Are those carbs from all sources or just the starchy carbs? Whether they’re carbs from all sources or not, I’m inclined to give you credit for anything you weigh, measure, look up and record, so reduce carbs in the meal above by 20g and reduce protein by 10g.
PWO Shake = 1 scoop of whey, 50g of carbs from dextrose = 25g of protein, 50g of carbs
Bingo! You nailed the 2:1 ratio perfectly on that one. (grin)
Meal 2 P+C: 5 oz of chicken, 1 cup of oatmeal, orange, 1 hard boiled egg = 30g of protein, 90g of carbs, 9g of fat
If you take out the egg, that will reduce fat to about 3g and reduce protein by 6g, which would put you at just the numbers you need.
Meal 3 P+C: Whole Wheat Tuna/Turkey Sandwich, Apple (need to find a way to get more carbs into this meal?) maybe 1/2 cup of brown rice or some sweet potatoes on the side? = 30g of protein, 54g of carbs, 5g of fat
Yes, either one would work. Do you know how to reduce protein when I keep telling you that? You’d need a little food scale. They’re actually pretty cheap on eBay. I have a scale that weighs in grams and tenths of an ounce. If a certain food provides 6g of protein per ounce, you’d need 4.1 ounces.
Meal 4 looks perfect even if it’s a few grams over on the fat.
Meal 5 needs something different than chicken. The “rule” is to not repeat a protein source in a day’s time.
Isn’t olive oil and flaxseed oil 1.5 tablespoons? I’m trying to remember if I gave you a lower number.
Shoot for 90g of starchy carbs in your 4 P+C meals – thats literally almost 1 1/4 cup of oatmeal along with a fruit and a protein source and trying to eat during work all that may take quite some time
I know it’s asking a lot, Bob, but the scale is going the wrong way, and this is the outcome-based decision making I was telling you about. I do think if you cut out the extras that you can get it in.
5 day split and 1 day of cardio, sundays are off
Good!!!
Keep me interested on Surge! Origional flavor and tell me how the hell it comes out to a 2L PWO drink! that soudns interesting
1 scoop per liter so that it’s properly dilute and hits the blood stream quickly. I add Splenda to it and a pinch of salt, but I’ve got a terrible sweet tooth that I only rarely indulge. (grin)
Do your best to hit those 90g. Reducing protein to 1g per pound of body weight should help. Remember that if we don’t see an increase in scale weight this coming week, we’re going up in the number of carbs you consume. Honestly, if you hit your numbers at each and every meal, I don’t think we’ll have to. So if you miss a meal, make a shake and get it in, in the middle of the night when you hit the restroom. That’s actually a trick we could pull to reduce the amount of protein you need to consume per meal, leaving more room for starchy carbs.
thanks for the update terry! i will try to keep those carbs up! as for a scale i just picked one up!
wont reducing the protein intake have a lil issue with my gains int he gym not getting as much protein in my body? just curious
reducing the intake by about 100 grams will prob have a big effect on how my results have been in the gym dont you think?
also upping carbs by 100 will be tough because i don’t like to eat much carb foods, but that is ok…
for meal 1 i get about 30-35g of carbs from the banana, and my cereal has about 20g of carbs per serving and i eat 3 servings… so it comes out to about 90 from both sources
i am thinking of replacing the chicken in the later meal with maybe tuna or something haveing shrimp as another protein source? a good idea?
as for meal 2 … ditch the egg and add some more oatmeal? any suggestions on preparing oatmeal… i usually just cook it in the mic and toss in the chicken and have a hot chicken oatmeal…tastes great
so disregard fruits as carb sources even tho they have quite a bit around 25-30 carbs per serving
i hope seeing the numbers on the scale shoot up wont scare me lol
thanx for the input again i will check up with u everyday about weight! because its weigh in day
Good news on the scale!!! Way to go, LB!!! Purchasing a scale means you’re getting SERIOUS!!! (grin)
wont reducing the protein intake have a lil issue with my gains int he gym not getting as much protein in my body? just curious
Nope! You’re getting all of what you need to make repairs and build muscle. Consuming 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight and increasing carbs to the amount necessary to gain a little scale weight each and every week is a solid, proven approach. The reason I’m doing it is is that the body doesn’t have to work as hard to utilize carbohydrates for energy … at least compared to protein.
for meal 1 i get about 30-35g of carbs from the banana, and my cereal has about 20g of carbs per serving and i eat 3 servings… so it comes out to about 90 from both sources
Eating 3 servings of fruit is part of your plan, LB, but it’s starchy carbs that I’m raising on you. Starchy carbs refill muscle glycogen. The fructose in fruit refills liver glycogen. Fruit and starchy carbs have different effects on the body and are not interchangeable.
i am thinking of replacing the chicken in the later meal with maybe tuna or something haveing shrimp as another protein source? a good idea?
Either one would be fine. Variety is good!!!
as for meal 2 … ditch the egg and add some more oatmeal? any suggestions on preparing oatmeal… i usually just cook it in the mic and toss in the chicken and have a hot chicken oatmeal…tastes great
That works! (grin) You should really try wheat berries sometimes. You could cook them in chicken broth instead of water and have it with your chicken. It would be a whole new taste sensation. (grin)
so disregard fruits as carb sources even tho they have quite a bit around 25-30 carbs per serving
Unfortunately, yes. For our purposes, yes.
Glad to hear your numbers are up!!! (big grin) That’s great news, LB!!! You’re making things happen. I’m proud of you.
so 90g of complex carbs from the starchy carbs alone will be a task… considering im a slow eater… any tips except stuff ur face and once ur done chewing ur last bite fill ur mouth back again
now that i completley understand the plan i will put it into full effect dividing it evenly between those meals and still getting all those carbs around my workout and the later meals the fat meals
thanks for the update on the PWO shake as i will really look into ordering surge as my protein is running out here, so we can give that a whirl… just got me a 1L water bottle so i can mix 1L of water with a scoop of surge
i will keep u updated as i will bump up those carbs a lil bit from 1/2 cup of oatmeal at every meal to 3/4 of a cup and see if the results come up a little bit
on days i do not lift/cardio should i reduce the amount I eat or continue on with the diet and eat what i normally eat on normal resistance days? i see a lot of people cut back a little bit because of no physical activity… just a curious question
thanx and ill keep u updated on how things are going always
so 90g of complex carbs from the starchy carbs alone will be a task… considering im a slow eater… any tips except stuff ur face and once ur done chewing ur last bite fill ur mouth back again
It’s not that bad, LB. Make a list of your starchy carbs and go to www.fitday.com or www.nutritiondata.com and look up the number of ounces (or measured volume like cups) you need to consume to hit 90g.
I can help you with the numbers, LB, but you’re the one who has to work through the issues of eating what it takes to achieve the goals you want. That’s what it boils down to, unfortunately. You either eat until you’re satisfied and see no increases in scale weight and LBM (or possibly lose even more weight!), or you do what you have to do and consume the number of carbs you need to consume (going up on any week that you don’t gain scale weight). It’s the same battle/challenge that everyone else in your shoes has had to face.
Personally, I think you’ve got what it takes and will rise to the occasion. (grin)
I know you have a lot of boxed cereal, but if you can donate it to a good cause (like starving children in Ethiopia?) and upgrade to oatmeal, it would be a lot more healthful and better for your body composition goals. I’ll get you started with the first couple
Brown rice = 2.25 cups (cooked)
Oatmeal = 2 cups (dry measure)
Sweet potatoes =
Yams =
Whole wheat pasta =
Quinoa =
Amaranth =
on days i do not lift/cardio should i reduce the amount I eat or continue on with the diet and eat what i normally eat on normal resistance days? i see a lot of people cut back a little bit because of no physical activity… just a curious question
At this point in time, the only difference between your workout days and your non-workout days is going to be your PWO shake. If we have to go up in the number of carbs you consume again because you don’t gain scale weight in a given week, we might add them to your PWO shake and meal. So if you don’t want me going up in the number of grams you need to consume, make sure you’re getting all of your carbs!!! (grin)
[quote]I know you have a lot of boxed cereal, but if you can donate it to a good cause (like starving children in Ethiopia?) and upgrade to oatmeal, it would be a lot more healthful and better for your body composition goals. I’ll get you started with the first couple
Brown rice = 2.25 cups (cooked)
Oatmeal = 2 cups (dry measure)**
Sweet potatoes =
Yams =
Whole wheat pasta =
Quinoa =
Amaranth =
[/quote]
***Also by dry measure do u mean that is how much i shuold have before i add the water/milk correct? sorry im new to oatmeal
For Cereal I only have 1 bowl which is about 2-2.5 cups cause sometimes ill throw in a lil more if im hungry with at most a cup of milk
But for Oatmeal im going to need some help—
I picked up some Quaker Quick Oats at Sams Club in a nice bulk package
I only know how to make oatmeal with water as you can see… so i need some advice
If im going to prepare oatmeal in advance especially overnight… should i take the oatmeal mix it with milk/water and then mix in a scoop of whey… or would it be better to have straight up oatmeal in the morning with a whey shake and a banana for my meal?
Can you make oatmeal with milk by frying it up in the mic or do u take the oatmeal mix it with H20 and then mix in the milk?
I know a lot of people that make it the night before and have it the next morning cold and say its very very good especially mixing the milk/water, whey, and the amnt of oatmeal they have
Also I have Oatmeal everyday in my PWO meal i take 1/2 cup and mix it with water heat it up in the mic with some chicken and chow down then top it off with an apple
***For my Carbs in my PWO shake i take dextrose… 1/3 cup = about 50 - 52g which is ideal for a 2:1 ratio for a 140lb person
26g of protein comes from 1 scoop whey
and i toss in 5g of glutamine because i get it for free from the building i work in.
and it all mixes with about 10-12 oz of water… a good idea
my PWO meal 1 hour after i take down my shake is:
5 oz of chicken (about 30g of protein)
3/4 cup of oatmeal (40g of complex carbs)
Orange (30g of carbs)
so im getting about 70g of carbs and 30g of protein in my PWO meal another higher 2:1 ratio which is critical
hope those anwser some of ur questions
shooting for those 90g of carbs is tough because im not use to eating that much
***my cereal (special K protein Plus or bran flakes) has 14-20g of carbs per serving which is 3/4 cup… and a bowl is about 2 cups… that alone with skim milk and a protein shake on the side with a banana takes me to the verge in the gym as sometimes ill get a sick feeling in my stomach
I use to mix my milk with whey and pour that into my cereal, but it only makes the cereal soggy really fast for some reason and not really that enjoyable, but when i use to do that i could down 2 bowls of a cereal… and thats all iw ould have … so about 4 cups of cereal which would be 84g of carbs from the cereal alone and the milk would prob give me another 13 or so… so that would hit the mark, but i like to get a banana in Pre-Workout … helps prevent cramps… even though they have never been a problem and its more nutritious
Its also very Tough to cheat on my diet because i have to pack all of my food for the day considering working 9-11 most days double shifitng… so im at work all the time… and even though i do work in a kitchen in both jobs the food is all deep fried or by the time i get to subway its time for my P+F meals… so there is nothing i can really make at Subway to beef me up Fat Wise its all shitty bread and processed meat( only things i would eat are the chicken breast or turkey) which i take for my packed lunches
** Other then that maybe my problem with eating is i like to enjoy my food by chewing it often and taking small moderate bites like 2-3 almonds at a time, maybe a slice of an orange at time, … any suggestions on proper eating? maybe a 5 second break between bites? i usually little breaks between bites and take small bites…
ive read that taking larger bites and eating fast causes ur brain to not notice how hungry u really are and causes u to overeat, but since I pack my lunch i really cant overeat because once i eat what i have im out ya know?
Any other suggestions u might have let me know… take care Tampa… thanx always