T Nation

Layer System without Plazma?

A quick qestion to everyone really.

After hereing all this amazing feedback about the layer system, I am desperate to give it a try. I have one problem, I am a apprentice living on my own so my budget is extremely tight and i am unable to affort Plazma or Anaconda. I am currently double dosing on Surge Recovery (half before+ half after).

Does anyone here follow the layer system without Plazma or Anaconda? Obviously results will not be optimal but is it possible from a recovery aspect.

Many Thanks

I personally have been doing layers without PLAZMA or ANACONDA with great results. I have been using Surge also, 2 scoops which i take just like PLAZMA (Start sipping about 15 min prior and try to finish during my cluster sets), I also have added MAG-10 which has really improved recovery.

My suggestion is to get MAG-10 if at all possible because it really makes a difference, if not make sure your diet is on point and your protein intake is high enough to support your goals. Without the proper peri-workout nutrition the gains will not be as significant but will be very possible due to how powerful the layers system really is.

The most important part for a person without funds to afford all the peri-workout supps is to listen to your body, make sure your recovery is where you want it to be and attempt at all costs to avoid burning out the nervous system. Im no CT but he may suggest only 3 cluster sets and 2 HDL in an attempt to slightly lower the volume to help you be able to recover without all the proper supplements.

I’ve been doing the full layer program for 6 weeks with one Finibar before and one serving of MAG-10 after and that’s it. I haven’t reduced the volume at all and have been doing 6 days a week. I have even been doing prowler work 2-3 days a week and haven’t had a problem. I did up my calories quite a bit.

I’ve been thrilled with my progress. The change in my shoulders and traps has been crazy and my chest and hamstrings have grown quite a bit as well. All lifts are up significantly. It’s a great program.

Some observations:

  1. It’s not so much that PLAZMA “allows” you to do the layer system… the layer system is low in volume and fairly easy to recover from muscle-wise… with a high volume bodybuildijng program like Meadow’s I would say that PLAZMA is pretty much necessary to strive on it. HOWEVER PLAZMA maximize the results you will get, it is not just about recovery but also anabolism and response from the workout, and it has been my experience that the results from the layer system is correlated with the amiunt of PLAZMA I’m taking.

  2. Some people have reported great gains with the layer system, without using PLAZMA. And I’m happy about that because I believe that my philosophy is the best way to train for maximum gains. However there is a difference between being able to do it and progress for 4-6 weeks, and progressing for 12+ weeks. At one point the body’s ressources are running low and that’s where PLAZMA shines.

  3. A lot of people reported good results with the layer system without PLAZMA… and they are very happy… but their results would have been even better with PLAZMA.

I have been using ANACONDA to do the layer system. Before I was using ANACONDA I saw great results for a few weeks and then they sort of stalled out. After that I noticed I was not recovering nearly as well and I felt like my CNS was burning out. I would say at least use ANACONDA (ideally PLAZMA) at some point when you can afford it.

[quote]jtbrown0511 wrote:
I have been using ANACONDA to do the layer system. Before I was using ANACONDA I saw great results for a few weeks and then they sort of stalled out. After that I noticed I was not recovering nearly as well and I felt like my CNS was burning out. I would say at least use ANACONDA (ideally PLAZMA) at some point when you can afford it.[/quote]

That is a very important point… sometimes you think you are recovering, but you aren’t. And you cannot know what enhanced recovery feels like until you lived it.

Exactly. I always thought I was good at recovering but I had no idea how “good” one can recover until I started using ANACONDA. Hopefully someday I can afford to take PLAZMA on a consistent basis. I know ANACONDA is still powerful so to speak, but how how much better is PLAZMA than ANACONDA?

[quote]jtbrown0511 wrote:
Exactly. I always thought I was good at recovering but I had no idea how “good” one can recover until I started using ANACONDA. Hopefully someday I can afford to take PLAZMA on a consistent basis. I know ANACONDA is still powerful so to speak, but how how much better is PLAZMA than ANACONDA?[/quote]

@jtbrown:

CT has mentioned in the past that the layers system on Anaconda is 7 out of 10, Plazma 10 out of 10.

@Mutsanah: Thanks that’s exactly what I was looking for. Much appreciated.

Thanks everyone for your feedback.

I have been really looking at my budget the last couple of days and have possible come up with another solution which i need clarification on.

I could possible just afford Anaconda on its own if i cut out my pre bed Metabolic Drive shake and replaced it with a solid meal.

Would Anaconda on its own be a better option that my current Surge Recovery protocol?

Many Thanks

[quote]Hull2012 wrote:
Thanks everyone for your feedback.

I have been really looking at my budget the last couple of days and have possible come up with another solution which i need clarification on.

I could possible just afford Anaconda on its own if i cut out my pre bed Metabolic Drive shake and replaced it with a solid meal.

Would Anaconda on its own be a better option that my current Surge Recovery protocol?

Many Thanks[/quote]
Ya i believe it would.CONDA is really just a few steps below PLAZMA and myself and others were having great results with it before PLAZMA was released.

[quote]Hull2012 wrote:
Thanks everyone for your feedback.

I have been really looking at my budget the last couple of days and have possible come up with another solution which i need clarification on.

I could possible just afford anaconda on its own if i cut out my pre bed metabolic drive shake and replaced it with a solid meal.

Would anaconda on its own be a better option that my current surge recovery protocol?

Many Thanks[/quote]

That you be a very viable option, yes

I obviously get a greater amount of carbs through Surge Recovery, do i just account for that my consuming more carbs in my post workout meal. Also, is the amount of protein in Anaconda sufficient on its own with Mag-10.

Many Thanks

Thats all I am doing right now is just taking ANACONDA. I figured if I could afford one supplement then take care of peri workout.

[quote]jtbrown0511 wrote:
Thats all I am doing right now is just taking ANACONDA. I figured if I could afford one supplement then take care of peri workout.[/quote]

That’s EXACTLY how EVERYBODY should think… the most crucial part to maximize growth is the workout. So the first order of business is to use a supplement that makes you reap the most out of each session.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]jtbrown0511 wrote:
I have been using ANACONDA to do the layer system. Before I was using ANACONDA I saw great results for a few weeks and then they sort of stalled out. After that I noticed I was not recovering nearly as well and I felt like my CNS was burning out. I would say at least use ANACONDA (ideally PLAZMA) at some point when you can afford it.[/quote]

That is a very important point… sometimes you think you are recovering, but you aren’t. And you cannot know what enhanced recovery feels like until you lived it.[/quote]

This is exactly what happened to me. Was cruising really well making good gains for about 4 weeks then my body or CNS couldn’t keep up and recover. So I just purchased Anaconda and MAG-10. I remembered how much stronger I got and how well I recovered last time I used it with the I Bodybuilder and the 6 Weeks to superhero. I rarely got sore and felt eagerness and energy to hit the same body part as soon as the next day sometimes.