Layer System. Cardio for Leg Muscle Growth?

Hey, so i’ve reached novice standards for Deadlifts and Squats, and i’m not really interested in getting a lot more stronger on lower body lifts nor getting a lot bigger legs. I’m now running a more upper body focused training program (The Layer System) by Christian Thibaeudeau, and its 4 days a week of upper body lifts and one for Squats, but i’ve cut out the squats because like i said i have no desire of getting stronger much bigger in the lower body.
My question is, will adding sprints for 10 min, Bike Sprints (Tabata Style 20 sec on 10 sec off) and some BW lunges build up a LITTLE more muscle and give good defentition? And does this amount of Cardio interfer with my upper body lifting? Here is the Layer System: The Layer System

Also note that im still doing farmers walk for grip and core work.

It might. You’ll just have to try it and see. You can always adjust as needed if you want more or less growth.

No it won’t affect your upper body strength.

Any particular reason you don’t want to get stronger on the lower body lifts?

Can also try those cycling machines. On high intensity, adjusting seating and body position…can provide great leg (quad pump) and possible hypertrophy stimulu s

I just want to get strong at upper body lifts like bench, Rows, Power Shrugs ect. I don’t care for how much i deadlift and squat. More importantly; i store a lot of fat in my lower body and building big thighs just accentuates a huge lower body compared to the upper body. I just want lean legs as well as good VMO development.

Does Cycling develop the Teardrop muscle (VMO) in your experience?

I gain fat in the lower body too and I would advise against what you want to do. If you are at the basic deadlift level ( I assume 2x BW?) you probably don’t have muscular legs. You most likely just have to lose weight. Really you don’t want to look like a lightbulb. Anyway a good exercise for the VMO is sled pulling

Bike intervals will put more mass on the quads than low rep squatting.

If the resistance is high.

Waterbury has some interesting techniques on the bike to build legs. Something like set it at high resistance and cycle continuously for 2 minutes (as hard as possible; don’t drop below 40rpm and if you can get more than 60 it’s too easy)

Do this once a day and add 10 seconds every couple of days.

Never tried it but it sounds like something worthwhile to at least attempt. Worst case scenario you add some cardio to your routine.

Don’t think that you will be bigger and stronger with your upper body if you skip the Basic ; Legs and lower body…

Based on what, exactly? There’s plenty of dudes with huge ass upper bodies that bench 405 and have chicken legs.

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of course, they use gear !

IMG_1796

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show me a chicken legs guys ( who don’t train legs ) bench pressing 405 lbs please…

I haven’t tried this much but from what I see…it works very well. Even amateur cyclists, with their emaciated upper bodies have very nice carved out VMOs/turkey legs.

Try the suggestion below (Chad waterbury’s) for a few weeks…bet you’ll get some very pleasant gains. Plus cardio/growth hormone reelase from this sort of sprint cycling will be helpful.

As for benching huge pounds without a strong lower body…hmn possible for sure. There are bench specialists/powerlifters plus gym bros that have very “imbalanced” bench/upper body to legs strength ratios.

I think most people get stronger on bench as their deadlift/squat improves (from overall neural stimulation, mass, ability to produce force). But if you want upper body go get upper body!!

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IIRC at the paralympics or whatever their name is a guy without legs benched like 500+

image

Sorry forgot to mention…cyclists lift legs, too

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What protocol exactly? Are you referaring to the chad waterbury cycling “program” mentioned above or another method?

Honestly, there are plenty of guys who have big and strong upper body and who don’t train legs.

I would REALLY like to agree with you and say that you NEED to squat and deadlift to get a big/strong upper body, but it is simply not necessary, even without gear. If you load the upper body muscles properly they will grow, period.

I shouldn’t say this because my experience and what I do has a lot of impact on other people’s training. And I do believe that it will always be best to train all the basic movement patterns. BUT I must say that my bench press and overhead press were the strongest when I only did high pulls for my lower body. It’s also when my upper body was the biggest.

Understand that I trained for football for 8 years, where I squatted 2 days a week, sometimes 3. And then I trained 6 years for olympic lifting in which I squatted up to 6 days a week, then I did more of a powerlifitng training where I squatted twice a week. During my 4 years in bodybuilding I went back to training legs only once a week because they simply overpowered my upper body. Then when I was done with bodybuilding I had a 3 years period where I barely trained legs at all. Why? Because I honestly was sick of it after having a squat dominant program for most of my training life.

Now I am, of course, back to a more complete program and squatting heavy. But my point is that I was able to improve my upper body strength and size without squatting or deadlifting. This is not a “popular” thing to say, because it’s hardcore to claim that you need to squat or deadlift to get a big upper body. But it’s simply not true.

HOWEVER, stopping training legs have some drawbacks:

  • You won’t maintain squatting/deadlifting strength if you don’t keep doing them. When I stopped training legs seriously my back squat went from 585 down to 365, my front squat from 475 down to 285 and my deadlift from 585 down to 385. I regained most of that strength within a few months, but while not doing these lifts at least for maintenance I lost strengh.

  • You will lose leg size. When I stopped squatting/deadlifting I lost a significant amount of legs and glutes size. In my case it wasn’t disastrous because 18 years of squatting 2-6 times a week left me with dominant legs and even once they atrophied they were still muscular, lean and looked good. But from the post of the original poster, he likely does not have the same muscularity in the lower body, and in his case losing muscle might end up being problematic

  • You will lose glutes… Biking with a high resistance (fast intervals with low resistance will not build muscle) might help you maintain leg size, maybe even build some size. But the glutes won’t receive the same stimulus and will likely atrophy.

My own opinion is that it’s fine to take a break from lower body training if you are very advanced and have great legs already. The key word being “break”. But even in retrospect, when I took my break I should have simply tuned down my leg training to what was needed to maintain. Squatting one a week, not trying to get stronger but at least maintaining the strength I had.

@joemu14 you just reached the “novice standards” which means that if you are a guy you likely are still weaker than my girlfriend. I personally would not be comfortable saying that it’s ok to stop lifting work for your legs completely. I don’t feel like you’ve earned it. That having been said, it’s your body, you can do whatever you want. It’s a hobby after all.

So the true answers to your questions are:

Can you build your upper body strength and size without training legs? Yes

Can you maintain leg size with high resistance bike work? Yes

Can you keep your squatting and deadlift strength while not training these lifts or doing lifting work for the lower body? No

Am I “okay” with your plan? No

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That’s true. People often point out track cyclist’s massive legs to show that you can build legs by doing intense cycling. But I work with a track cyclist and the guy squats in the 500 at a body weight of 175lbs

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