T Nation

Latest Layer System Info?


Where Can I find the latest, as I have been away for a while due to ski season. Aka the layers and splits. Thanks

Program recommendations!
How Important Is Proper Technique?

There are many applications at this point. The one you would use depends on your goals

"Max Muscle Layering" : http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_thibaudeau/max_muscle_layering

"Layer system for power lifting" : http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_thibaudeau/layering_system_and_power_lifting?id=5578352&pageNo=0

This has a few splits in it. Including CT's 10 day rotation which many seem to be enjoying.

"Strength Focus Continuous Ramp": http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_thibaudeau/thibs_tip_strengthfocus_layer_continuous_ramp

"Layer system for fat loss": http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_body_training_performance_bodybuilding_thibaudeau/the_layer_system_for_fat_loss

Bunch of different options, pick which one fits the application you need it for.


Awesome summary - thanks Lonnie. Read through those to get reinvigorated with the vintage layer approaches (before my butchering with excessive skill/auxiliary work).

CT - three questions:
1. SGHP described as an exercise that can literally change your physique in one session (totally agree from my experience). Have you observed a pressing exercise equivalent?

  1. Related, since max pump layers have been axed for most of the training blocks, can 10-15 minutes of targetted tricep/pec/medial delt work be done after the pressing sessions? I think I've hit a sweet spot with ~5 hard sets of ring flyes after pressing days (incredible pec pump/fullness).

  2. I noticed you prefer tilted pressing work - why not weighted dips?



I appreciate all the pointers to different threads and all, but that consumes a lot of time sifting through, has some contradictions from forum contributors to contributors, and puts nothing in CT's pocket. I want to reserve purchase on the book before it comes out.


There's a book coming out? I didn't even know there was an article coming out, much less a book.


For the sake of completeness, here is CT's Strongman 10 day cycle:

I'm actually using it with a young strongman of amazing potential...

1. Power clean & push press to 1RM
2. Clean pull, start at 70% of no.1 and ramp to 1RM
3. Deadlift start at 70% of no.2 and ramp to 1RM
4. Log clean & press 6 x 3

1. Front squat ramp to 1RM
2. Back squat, start at 70% of no.1 and ramp to 1RM
3. Back squat from pins just above sticking point start at 70% of no.2 and ramp to 1RM
4. Farmer`s walk (as heavy as possible for 20 yards) 6 sets of 20 yards

1. Snatch-grip high pulls ramp to 1RM
2. Snatch-grip low pulls, start at 70% of no.1 and ramp to 1RM
3. Clean-grip low pulls, start at 70% of no.2 and ramp to 1RM
4. Tire flips 3 x 6-8 reps

1. Power clean & push press (1+3) ramp to 3RM
2. Power clean & push press (1+3) 4 x 3 @ 90% of no.1
3. Power clean & push press (3+1) 4 x 3 @ 90% of no.1
4. Atlas stone practice (10 minutes)

1. Back squat ramp to 3RM
2. Back squat 6 sets of 3 with 90% of no.1
3. Deadlift 4-5 sets of 4-6 reps
4. Yoke (moderate weight, maximum speed over 30m) 6 sets

1. Snatch-grip high pulls ramp to 3RM
2. Snatch-grip high pulls, 6 sets of 3 reps with 90% of no.1
3. RDL 4-5 sets of 8-10 reps

1. Regular bench press ramp to 6RM
2. Regular bench bench 4 sets of 6 with 90% of no.1
3. Floor press 4 sets of 6 with 80% of no.1
4. Viking press (or landmide press) 4-5 x 8-10

1. Power clean ramp to 6RM
2. Power clean complex 1 (2 power clean, 2 push press, 2 front squats) 4 sets with 90% of 6RM
3. Power clean complex 2 (3 power clean + 3 front squat + 3 RDL) 3 sets with 90%
4. Tire flips max distance in 2 minutes

1. Snatch-grip high pulls ramp to 6RM
2. Snach-grip high pulls 4 sets of 6 with 90% of no.1

DAY 10
1 set of each:
- Log clean & press (either go for max weight or try for a max rep set with a fixed load)
- Farmer's walk as heavy as possible for 30m
- Tire flips max in 2 minutes
- Atlas stones


If your recovery is poor you can extend the cycle by adding 1 more rest days after day 2


Great thanks Lonnie. Any info on what the recommended peri and post are?


The currently recommended optimal peri-workout nutrition is 2-3 scoops of Plazma taken as per label recommendations, and then 2-3 servings of MAG-10 in the few hours post. Indigo-3G also recommended 1 hour prior to starting Plazma if it fits in your budget


So Indigo-3G 1 Hour out and 2-3 Plazma scoops for peri and the 2-3 MAG-10 after training? Like MAG-10 one hour after finish training? Then one more each hour after that?


I thought it was now recommended to take Indigo-3G and first dose of Plazma at same time?


I just checked about the Indigo-3G and you are correct, the official recommendation is to take it with the Pre Workout dose of Plazma, Although I still like the idea of having it "in your system" before taking the Plazma, which has 38g of carbs.

Also, the current recommendation for Plazma is one scoop 15min Prior to starting training, then 2 scoops during the workout.

Then 1 serving of MAG-10 each hour after training, up to 3 pulses.

Obviously this is the OPTIMAL (read: most expensive) way of doing it, and can be adjusted down for those of us not on celebrity salaries :wink:


Excellent Lonnie.

Now what about splits? Exercise selections?


The original, "official" split was: High Pull, Slight Decline Tilt from pins, Dead-Squat/Trap Bar Dead, Slight Incline Tilt from pins, High Pull

I think this was a meant to be a "max muscle in all the right areas" type split... Or the "Built for Bad" split. Plenty of mass and power developed here, with no specific performance goal (like a power lifter, oly lifter, or strongman)

You'll have to dig around for the splits that match your goal.


@Silver Ace:

How was your experience with the Reactive Pump System compared to that of the Layers? Curious as I may go for the 12 week Reactive System and give it a go while doing a 2 scoop Plazma and 2 Pulse protocol.

I love the explosive nature of the Layers, etc. but feel Reactive Pump may distribute mass more evenly, where as the Layers pack it on fast albeit for the Power Look more so.


I actually didnt do the reactive pump. I opened a log there to test something but never actually did the program.

I am getting some "tightness" in my chest/shoulder tie-in area that I think may be due to the heavy 2x/week pressing. I'm going to try swap out one of the pressing days for a "pump day" and see what that does, but I feel like I am heading towards an injury if I keep with the current schedule so I need to do something different. Hopefully this will only last a short while as I really like the set up of the layers, but we will see.



I see. Well I think we need to take 12 weeks and go balls out in hand with Reactive Pump. Lol
I agree 3 months of the heavy Pin work is starting to fatigue my joints and system. Need a change of pace. I'm actually going to do Eric Minors circuit work for 4 to 8 weeks and add some HIIT sprints, sled and row work on off days, throw the HOT-ROX in and get rippied. I'll then come back and hit the Reactive Pump. After I'll revisit the Layers and eventually do the 10 day system as the 6 month accumulations Layers with the strength layers is just too damn long!


CT -
You mentioned doing a back squat and press focused training recently (HFSWish?). Curious where you are at now and training priorities - layer for mass vs. goign back into oly lifting vs. maintaining performance etc. - and maybe if you find changing stuff up increases gains? Thanks


I don't want to tell too much too soon.

When it comes to lifting itself, I basically have 3-4 strength days and 2-3 olympic lifting days.

On the strength days I do the back squat and push press for strength (but in various rep ranges) and the deadlift for strength-capacity (using the density method I talked about in my thread Deadlift: Friend of Foe).

On the olympic lifting days I'm doing a combination of regular lifts and complexes.

The strength/olympic lifting sections rarely last longer than 30-35 minutes.


Sweet - looking forward to hearing more. Honestly, feeling a bit burned out from layers despite week rest so would welcome a change of pace (:. The 30-35 minutes thing seems key...I am definitely exceeding that limit...


Damn, I just started them and don't ever want to stop! One lift for 30-40 minutes feels awesome and is great in terms of focus. Although I am really curious to see how the system evolves.