T Nation

Late Workout Nutrition


I have a question for any of the nutrition guru's on this board. I utilize the HST lifting programs on Monday/Wed/Fri (usually around noon) I use Surge during and post workout.

On Mon&Wed nights I teach a Fitness Kickboxing class which is a high intensity 20 minute workout for me. After that I usually come home, have 2 scoops of Low-Carb Grow! and go to bed. Should I be drinking Surge and going to bed instead of the Grow!?

My goal is to put on more muscle (and yes I'd like to lean up a bit). I'm using Carbolin 19 for the next couple of months then after that I have some 4-AD-EC I'll be using for a couple of weeks and after that I have a months supply of MAG-10 I'll be using.

Any feedback is appreciated.



FatSensei, you wouldn't want to drink Surge and then immediately go to bed, because you could experience an unfavorable drop in blood sugar.

I'd have Surge and then a solid meal, but if this is not feasible then adding some simple sugar to your Low-Carb Grow! will aid in recovery.

Good luck!


If I can piggy-back off this thread I'd appreciate it... Similar issue, reversed.

What of early morning training? I am up around 4am for either lifting or spinning and even something as light as a protein shake makes me nauseous if I drink it before. I know lifting on in a fasted state isn't a great idea - any ideas on how to adapt? Do I need an extra heavy PC meal after my PWO drink? Suggestions?


fatsensei ,

Just o help my Buddy Dave out and k=make sure you are clear on the whys of his recommendation. By Taking just the Surge after your w/o pre bed. You are doing a great job of blunting catabolism and starting that anabolic state. This however will fade FAST as is the purpose of Surge both the Carbs and Protein are fast digesting and when it is gone your body will be on a mad crash and hunt for more fuel. So it then may turn back to consuming your muscle again.

Tha is why his recommendation.


I would suggest Surge or something like it. If you have to don?t mix it as watered down making it smaller. What type of protein drink have you tried. Could be that its curdle size/ digestion rate was just to slow for you to have pre w/o. At the very least consuming a simple Carb containing drink (Gatorade) prior during will help you o not be so catabolic. Fasted weights and Sprints just are NOT a good idea no matter the goals. Well unless for some reason you seek to lose LBM and strength.

Hope that helps,



Phil: I use Surge as the PWOD after lifting, I don't do anything after spinning. Not sure where, but I recall reading that cardio didn't require a PWOD. Are you suggesting I do the Surge prior to lifting? The protein I'm using is from XS: 35g protein (milk protein concentrate, calcium caseinate, whey protein concentrate, whey protein isolate); 4g carbs; 6g fat.



Oh, goals....that may be useful to know. Given that gaining LBM and losing fat are not best accomplished simultaneously, of the two I'd prefer to gain LBM. While I have a decent amount of fat to lose, I think I should probably focus on LBM now or I'll end up with nada after cutting. However, I could be wrong....



Yes Surge is exactly what I am suggesting prior to a work out. That is if you are doing it first thing and dont have time for a meal prior and to let it settle a bit. Which it sounds you dont.

The problem you are having is the one I talked about. While milk protein,. and Casien are GREAT (Like Grow!) most parts of the day they are Not great just imediate PWO do to they slowness of their digestion. Why are they digested slow. Picture Large Curd Cottage cheese. That is what the Casien and Milk protein does in your stoch in reaction to the acids. It Curdles and that is why it is slowly digested.

Surge on the other hand in Hydro. whey. it is fast absorbed also has carbs to get you going as well. I have changed to having my Surge Prior after chatting a lot of the month with Dave Barr. On and Off. I messed with the timing and found for me it is best to slam half a serving 30 mins prior to my w/o. then the other half during my warm up. This gets the aminos in me a nice energy boost that will last the hour plus without a BAD crash befor i get more Surge or a meal PWO.

Dave suggest 15 mins. prior. I would say start there and then experiment and see what works best for you. In a sense you are doing what Surge does Prior to the w/o. Then add another Serving right after or another whiole food protein and simple carbv source and BAM you giot it going on. LOL

Spining and PWO. Well it depends on the intensity. If it is HIGH then yes a pwo type drink could do you some good. If not then I cant see the shake you said bothering you during mid-low intensity cardio and it will more then do the Job.

Hope that helps and is somewhat clear. Ignore typos.



Thanks, Phil. If I'm understanding you correctly - I'll take half a serving of Surge upon waking and another half immediately prior to lifting. Upon finishing, another full serving followed by a PC (or PF? if I'm looking to minimize fat gain? always been a bit confused by that) whole food meal approx an hour later.

I went back and reread the intense cardio/PWO deal and I had it backwards. Yes, the spinning kicks ass...so I'll start doing Surge after that as well....or do the same thing as with lifting? At what point is cardio best done in a fasted state?


Yup sound GREAT on all that.

Fasted Cardio. I am a huge fan. well of mostly fasted cardio. I like the approch LL mentioned about just a half or even 1/4 scoop of Low-Carb Grow! then hit the Cardio. This is just enough aminos to halt that catabolism from the nightly fast but not stop the fat burning. Add a cup of coffe and hit the street. BUT!!!! keep it low to low mid intensity for fasted cardio. walks etc. You get into the medium and high stuff and BYE BYE LBM

Let me know how the new approach works