T Nation

Late Novice/Intermediate


#1

Hi all. I've been running Texas Method on a cut for about 12 weeks. Went from 183-167 and my lifts went from approx 195/245/305 to 205/280/325. I'm taking a deload week right now since I'm starting to feel residual fatigue. I'm trying to decide where to take my training after that. I may start back on a surplus soon but I'm not sure.

I honestly feel like I should be able to get my lifts up a lot faster than I am right now considering how weak I am but I'm not sure how to program that. Workout to workout linear programming just doesn't give me the chance to recover any more but at the same time weekly linear programming (Texas Method) can only go 5 lbs/week.

Meanwhile I see a lot of guys talking about how they're adding on 100+ lbs in a 12 week conjugate cycle and I'm just not sure how that actually looks since I'd think ME day on conjugate templates would be progressed more linearly week to week as far as weight on the bar.

tl;dr: I can't recover from straight linear programming (e.g. Starting Strength) but I feel I should be able to progress faster for my strength level. Recommendations?


#2

[quote]Ballad wrote:
Hi all. I’ve been running Texas Method on a cut for about 12 weeks. Went from 183-167 and my lifts went from approx 195/245/305 to 205/280/325. I’m taking a deload week right now since I’m starting to feel residual fatigue. I’m trying to decide where to take my training after that. I may start back on a surplus soon but I’m not sure.

I honestly feel like I should be able to get my lifts up a lot faster than I am right now considering how weak I am but I’m not sure how to program that. Workout to workout linear programming just doesn’t give me the chance to recover any more but at the same time weekly linear programming (Texas Method) can only go 5 lbs/week.

Meanwhile I see a lot of guys talking about how they’re adding on 100+ lbs in a 12 week conjugate cycle and I’m just not sure how that actually looks since I’d think ME day on conjugate templates would be progressed more linearly week to week as far as weight on the bar.

tl;dr: I can’t recover from straight linear programming (e.g. Starting Strength) but I feel I should be able to progress faster for my strength level. Recommendations?[/quote]

Seems like you’re just not recovering very well at all. with those numbers you should be able to progress a fair amount more without accumulating the amount of fatigue you would need to even consider going on a deload. So, if you’re not already recovering well enough AND you’re on a cut I would say it’s quite fair to expect less gains than youre hoping for. regardless of the program you’re on. I’m going to go ahead and suggest that you look at your sleep habits/stress levels/other thing in your life that may get in the way of you making optimal progress (you may also want to make sure your form is in check too). Then, consider what your goal is. Do you want to get stronger or do you want to get leaner? You can’t serve two masters especially when they’re two completely opposite goals.


#3

How tall are you?

Don’t cut at your strength level, it’s no use, you aren’t nearly strong enough to try to make weight for a record, for example. You’re also light in bodyweight. At your level, practice the lifts and focus on building muscle with accessory movements after your main lifts. If you’re anywhere near 5"10’’ or more, just slowly bulk towards 200 lbs. If you want to do powerlifting, just focus on getting your lifts up to around 400/300/500/ or 180/140/220 for kgs.


#4

[quote]bmcinnis96 wrote:
Seems like you’re just not recovering very well at all. with those numbers you should be able to progress a fair amount more without accumulating the amount of fatigue you would need to even consider going on a deload. So, if you’re not already recovering well enough AND you’re on a cut I would say it’s quite fair to expect less gains than youre hoping for. regardless of the program you’re on. I’m going to go ahead and suggest that you look at your sleep habits/stress levels/other thing in your life that may get in the way of you making optimal progress (you may also want to make sure your form is in check too). Then, consider what your goal is. Do you want to get stronger or do you want to get leaner? You can’t serve two masters especially when they’re two completely opposite goals.[/quote]

As a college student it’s tough to really keep stress fully in check. I do my best job with sleep and never get below 7 hours but it’s tough to consistently stay in the 9-10 hr range. My average is always over 8 but sometimes I string a few 7 hour nights together… tough to be as consistent as I’d like to.

[quote]DaneMuscle wrote:
How tall are you?

Don’t cut at your strength level, it’s no use, you aren’t nearly strong enough to try to make weight for a record, for example. You’re also light in bodyweight. At your level, practice the lifts and focus on building muscle with accessory movements after your main lifts. If you’re anywhere near 5"10’’ or more, just slowly bulk towards 200 lbs. If you want to do powerlifting, just focus on getting your lifts up to around 400/300/500/ or 180/140/220 for kgs.[/quote]

Between 5’9" and 5’10". Honestly I’d feel better being in the 180’s but when I was there before I was also incredibly fat. I was wanting to get lean for self-image sake in all honesty but the performance is starting to bug me a bit. Not sure how to balance that.


#5

[quote]Ballad wrote:
Hi all. I’ve been running Texas Method on a cut for about 12 weeks. Went from 183-167 and my lifts went from approx 195/245/305 to 205/280/325. I’m taking a deload week right now since I’m starting to feel residual fatigue. I’m trying to decide where to take my training after that. I may start back on a surplus soon but I’m not sure.

I honestly feel like I should be able to get my lifts up a lot faster than I am right now considering how weak I am but I’m not sure how to program that. Workout to workout linear programming just doesn’t give me the chance to recover any more but at the same time weekly linear programming (Texas Method) can only go 5 lbs/week. [/quote]

You added 65lbs to your total in 12 weeks during a cut. That’s pretty good. It’s really fucking good. Why don’t you try to keep that kind of progress going as long as you can? If you do, you’ll be an elite level lifter in just a few years.

[quote]Meanwhile I see a lot of guys talking about how they’re adding on 100+ lbs in a 12 week conjugate cycle and I’m just not sure how that actually looks since I’d think ME day on conjugate templates would be progressed more linearly week to week as far as weight on the bar.

tl;dr: I can’t recover from straight linear programming (e.g. Starting Strength) but I feel I should be able to progress faster for my strength level. Recommendations?[/quote]

Don’t worry about what other people are saying (you have no idea what other factors have driven their rates of progress) and certainly don’t worry about the conjugate method right now.


#6

[quote]Ballad wrote:
weekly linear programming (Texas Method) can only go 5 lbs/week.
[/quote]
You are very badly misunderstanding this type of programming.


#7

[quote]Ballad wrote:
Between 5’9" and 5’10". Honestly I’d feel better being in the 180’s but when I was there before I was also incredibly fat. I was wanting to get lean for self-image sake in all honesty but the performance is starting to bug me a bit. Not sure how to balance that.
[/quote]
Stay lean, fat isn’t going to help you lift more weight. At least it won’t let you lift enough to be competitive in the higher weight class that you’ll be in. If you’re lean now at 167 and 5’9"-5’10" cool, if you still have excess weight lose it. Once you’re lean, general rule of thumb for lean but strong is about 8-15% bf, if you want to gain weight add about 100 Cals to that and make sure what you’re gaining is mostly quality weight. If you’re at 180 pounds of quality weight in about a year that would be very impressive.

Don’t let people tell you you need to add a bunch of weight to get stronger. The IPF world’s winner at 165 is 5’9". Is he the exception? Absolutely but who’s to say you aren’t too? And even if you aren’t the exception you’ll still be able to be damn strong without being 200.

That was all a little long but when you’re where you wanna be lean wise, stay lean and work on quality weight. Also just like BCpowder said, adding 65 lbs to your total in 12 weeks on a cut is pretty damn good progress.


#8

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]Ballad wrote:
weekly linear programming (Texas Method) can only go 5 lbs/week.
[/quote]
You are very badly misunderstanding this type of programming.[/quote]

Rip pretty much explicitly states in PPST that it’s essentially linear progress drawn from week to week (ID to ID) rather than workout to workout. It involves weekly periodization but the overall progress is still linear. Though this does change in later versions of TM that he outlines to continue with, such as when DE days are introduced.

Would you mind explaining where I’m wrong if you still disagree?

Anyway - thanks to everyone else for the input. I’m still carrying more fat than I need to imo (~13%)


#9

[quote]Ballad wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]Ballad wrote:
weekly linear programming (Texas Method) can only go 5 lbs/week.
[/quote]
You are very badly misunderstanding this type of programming.[/quote]

Rip pretty much explicitly states in PPST that it’s essentially linear progress drawn from week to week (ID to ID) rather than workout to workout. It involves weekly periodization but the overall progress is still linear. Though this does change in later versions of TM that he outlines to continue with, such as when DE days are introduced.

Would you mind explaining where I’m wrong if you still disagree?

Anyway - thanks to everyone else for the input. I’m still carrying more fat than I need to imo (~13%)[/quote]
Maybe I’m misinterpreting what you said, but I see this mentality very often with programs like TM, 5/3/1, Juggernaut, etc. You said “can only go 5lbs per week” as though this was somehow limiting your gains. Does 5lbs per week sound low to you? I mean that’s fucking insane if you keep going with it long enough. At 5lbs per week unless you’re still getting noob gains or started with a light training max you’re gonna stall out sooner rather than later and need to reset. Put a little less worry in the magical math of your program, pick a good one, and just do it as hard as you can.


#10

[quote]csulli wrote:
Maybe I’m misinterpreting what you said, but I see this mentality very often with programs like TM, 5/3/1, Juggernaut, etc. You said “can only go 5lbs per week” as though this was somehow limiting your gains. Does 5lbs per week sound low to you? I mean that’s fucking insane if you keep going with it long enough. At 5lbs per week unless you’re still getting noob gains or started with a light training max you’re gonna stall out sooner rather than later and need to reset. Put a little less worry in the magical math of your program, pick a good one, and just do it as hard as you can.[/quote]

TROOF.

Worry about keeping 5lbs a week going as long as you can. I’m happy if I can make 5lb PR’s every other month at my bodyweight.


#11

[quote]csulli wrote:

Maybe I’m misinterpreting what you said, but I see this mentality very often with programs like TM, 5/3/1, Juggernaut, etc. You said “can only go 5lbs per week” as though this was somehow limiting your gains. Does 5lbs per week sound low to you? I mean that’s fucking insane if you keep going with it long enough. At 5lbs per week unless you’re still getting noob gains or started with a light training max you’re gonna stall out sooner rather than later and need to reset. Put a little less worry in the magical math of your program, pick a good one, and just do it as hard as you can.[/quote]

Yeah, I suppose it does sound low, since it’s been drilled into me that I should’ve been to 2/3/4 plates by like a month ago. I dunno, maybe I’ve just developed an unhealthy perception of how fast I should be progressing because of internet culture? Most of the reading I did regarding the novice stages of training gave me the impression I should be able to sprint to 2/3/4 and jog to 3/4/5 and I feel like I’m already jogging at 1.5/2.5/3.


#12

[quote]Ballad wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

Maybe I’m misinterpreting what you said, but I see this mentality very often with programs like TM, 5/3/1, Juggernaut, etc. You said “can only go 5lbs per week” as though this was somehow limiting your gains. Does 5lbs per week sound low to you? I mean that’s fucking insane if you keep going with it long enough. At 5lbs per week unless you’re still getting noob gains or started with a light training max you’re gonna stall out sooner rather than later and need to reset. Put a little less worry in the magical math of your program, pick a good one, and just do it as hard as you can.[/quote]

Yeah, I suppose it does sound low, since it’s been drilled into me that I should’ve been to 2/3/4 plates by like a month ago. I dunno, maybe I’ve just developed an unhealthy perception of how fast I should be progressing because of internet culture? Most of the reading I did regarding the novice stages of training gave me the impression I should be able to sprint to 2/3/4 and jog to 3/4/5 and I feel like I’m already jogging at 1.5/2.5/3.[/quote]
Na man, don’t worry! You just follow a good program and train hard and aggressively, but that doesn’t mean you have to rush to certain numbers. Let the weights come as they come. There’s plenty of people who get up to 2/3/4 real fast and then stay there for the next 5 years. Don’t be that guy. It’s more important that you learn how to train. Small, incremental progress consistently and continuously will add up to massive weights.