Lat Pull Down vs. Pull Up?

Never thought of the amounts of people who argue against pull ups. That’s too bad. Now back to the “toning” room and body pump classes.

Demands for the justification of a pull up? It’s alright folks, it’s hard and more complex to explain compared to pulldowns. So don’t do pull ups.

Leave it empty for someone who takes their conditioning seriously. In fact can you get a 24ft extension ladder and tie a 1.5 inch thick rope from the ceiling at about 20 ft in length. There might be some people who want to do real world training at your gym.

Hey I hear there’s a rush order on 5 more leg press apparatuses. They are gonna take the place of the squat and power racks because they help out so much more because it’s an easier thing to do.

I thought this was the T-Nation. What happened to this place.

The top 10 reasons why Pull downs are better than Pull-ups:

  1. You can do many more Pull-down reps than you can Pull-ups, simply lower the weight and rip them off one right after the other! Tell me that doesn’t build the old ego…hey that’s important!

  2. While you are doing Pull-downs you can also look around the Gym and see if any of the babes are watching you. Try doing that with some intense Pull-ups!

  3. When you do Pull-ups you are up so high you might get a nose bleed (hey, it could happen).

  4. You get to sit down while you are doing Pull-downs. Now I think we can all agree here, any exercise that allows you to sit down is naturally superior.

  5. There are a multitude of manufacturers who have invested a great deal of money in Pull-down machines. Now why oh why would you want to harm their potential for profit by doing those silly Pull-ups? Get real…I mean how much could that silly little Pull-up bar cost?

  6. Those who claim that Pull-downs are not “natural movements” should think again! How many times have you gone to your cupboard to reach for a box of cereal, or better yet a can of Grow! and “pulled it down?” See…Pull downs are better.

  7. Let’s face it, you will meet more girls at the Pull-down machine than you will under the Pull-up bar. Three simple words man: Chics dig Pull-downs!

  8. Those who think Pull-downs are for wimps better think again! Look at that impressive stack of weight on the typical Pull-down mahcine. You think they put that there for sissies? No way man!

  9. You crazy fools, look how big all the Mr. Olympia finalists got from doing Pull downs. They did…yes it was from Pull downs…it was too!

The Number One Reason Pull downs are better:

  1. When you get right down to it, it’s all about bragging! In the end nothing else really matters now does it? Which sounds better: “Hey babe, I just knocked off 2 sets of 3 Pull-ups each.” OR “Hey babe, I just knocked off 6 sets of 12 reps each on the Lat Pull down.” Now go hit that Pull down machine!

Disclaimer (reading it fast is better):

(This top 10 was sponsored by “Multi-Flex” the number one maker of Pull-down machines in North America. Multi-Flex takes no responsibility for any injuries incurred by using any of its machines. And while results may vary depending on usage, we assure you that results will eventually be attained almost half as quickly as they would have had you done Pull-ups. Buy Multi-Flex wherever fine chrome machines are sold.)

Well, I for one would prefer to do pull ups over pull downs. However, when I started out I couldnt do a pull-up to save my life! I used the pull down machine to bring my strength levels up to a point where I could bang out a few reps of pull-ups to finish out my set I would return to the lat pull down machine. I am using the machine to help me get to a level that will enable me to do pull ups. Once there I will never go back to that damn thing!

I think you guys are funny. Do you really find pulldowns easier?

I don’t find strapping 90 pounds on and knocking out 5 chin-ups to be any harder than pulling down 315x5. The only part harder is getting the weights strapped on to me and walking up to the bar like an orangatuang. Macho BS aside do any of you have any logical reason for doing chins?

Here’s what Don Alessi said in one of his Iron Dog colums:

Q: Just why the heck are pull-ups superior to cable pulldowns?

A: The short answer? Because the biggest guys do them. The long answer? The pull-up forces you to train harder. Let’s break it down.

The pull-up engages a greater number and higher threshold of motor units. This is due to the stabilizers firing to fixate the torso and keep it rigid and the relatively greater loads being placed on each muscle along the chain.

For example, it?s not uncommon to get serious DOMS (soreness) in the abs, glutes and hamstrings after eight sets of six reps of chins. With the pulldown, the lower and mid body is fixated by the machine and therefore those same muscles are inactive.

Additionally, many muscles along the chinning chain such as the abs, biceps, hamstrings and lower lat fibers are predominately fast twitch and respond best to the more intense effort that only the mighty pull-up can provide.

Let?s make one point clear. It?s only the “free,” non-assisted pull-ups and chin-ups that are superior back developers. Assisted (machine) pull-ups are in many ways inferior to cable pulldowns. This is due to the potential for cheating on such devices. By flexing the hips, knees and or ankles on a pull-up machine, the trainee can create a significant plyometric effect. This leads to poor form and injury.

Stick to old fashioned pull-ups and chin-ups.

[quote]super saiyan wrote:
The pull-up engages a greater number and higher threshold of motor units. This is due to the stabilizers firing to fixate the torso and keep it rigid and the relatively greater loads being placed on each muscle along the chain. [/quote]
Who the hell cares about the torso stabilizer muscles? I guess you could run in place while doing chin-ups and hit even more “torso stabilizer muscles,” so what? If I want to work my torso I’ll do some situps, hit a heavy bag or whatever.

Yep, not a good reason at all. I mean, you could have someone punch you in the stomach while doing chins, and I guess that would be a nice ab workout. But when I do chins or pulldowns, I’m interested in working my back/lats/biceps. If I want to work abs. I’ll go do something for my abs.

This makes zero sense. A more intense effort would be doing situps with plates, etc, if you wanted to work your abs, etc.

Still looks like BS to me.

Pretty funny, ZEB.

SIMPLY put, do pull-downs until you can do a working set of pull-ups.

Pull/chin-ups work more muscles than pull-downs.

And this topic is starting to get old.

[quote]Jay Sherman wrote:
super saiyan wrote:
The pull-up engages a greater number and higher threshold of motor units. This is due to the stabilizers firing to fixate the torso and keep it rigid and the relatively greater loads being placed on each muscle along the chain.
Who the hell cares about the torso stabilizer muscles? I guess you could run in place while doing chin-ups and hit even more “torso stabilizer muscles,” so what? If I want to work my torso I’ll do some situps, hit a heavy bag or whatever.

For example, it?s not uncommon to get serious DOMS (soreness) in the abs, glutes and hamstrings after eight sets of six reps of chins. With the pulldown, the lower and mid body is fixated by the machine and therefore those same muscles are inactive.
Yep, not a good reason at all. I mean, you could have someone punch you in the stomach while doing chins, and I guess that would be a nice ab workout. But when I do chins or pulldowns, I’m interested in working my back/lats/biceps. If I want to work abs. I’ll go do something for my abs.

Additionally, many muscles along the chinning chain such as the abs, biceps, hamstrings and lower lat fibers are predominately fast twitch and respond best to the more intense effort that only the mighty pull-up can provide.
This makes zero sense. A more intense effort would be doing situps with plates, etc, if you wanted to work your abs, etc.

Still looks like BS to me.[/quote]

Dont do them then

[quote]Jay Sherman wrote:
For example, it?s not uncommon to get serious DOMS (soreness) in the abs, glutes and hamstrings after eight sets of six reps of chins. With the pulldown, the lower and mid body is fixated by the machine and therefore those same muscles are inactive.
Yep, not a good reason at all. I mean, you could have someone punch you in the stomach while doing chins, and I guess that would be a nice ab workout. But when I do chins or pulldowns, I’m interested in working my back/lats/biceps. If I want to work abs. I’ll go do something for my abs.

Still looks like BS to me.[/quote]

Like I said earlier you are obviously more of the body builder ilk that likes to train everything seperately rather than as a whole. Most people will benefit from compound moves, and pullups are superior in this sense.

Do whatever you feel, but the body works as a unit (Pavel said this I think) and IMO should be trained in this fashion.

Pulldowns are for fat guys, women and newbies.

And sometimes for variety. But mostly for fat guys, women and newbies. :slight_smile:

[quote]Jay Sherman wrote:
super saiyan wrote:
The pull-up engages a greater number and higher threshold of motor units. This is due to the stabilizers firing to fixate the torso and keep it rigid and the relatively greater loads being placed on each muscle along the chain.
Who the hell cares about the torso stabilizer muscles? I guess you could run in place while doing chin-ups and hit even more “torso stabilizer muscles,” so what? If I want to work my torso I’ll do some situps, hit a heavy bag or whatever.

For example, it?s not uncommon to get serious DOMS (soreness) in the abs, glutes and hamstrings after eight sets of six reps of chins. With the pulldown, the lower and mid body is fixated by the machine and therefore those same muscles are inactive.
Yep, not a good reason at all. I mean, you could have someone punch you in the stomach while doing chins, and I guess that would be a nice ab workout. But when I do chins or pulldowns, I’m interested in working my back/lats/biceps. If I want to work abs. I’ll go do something for my abs.

Additionally, many muscles along the chinning chain such as the abs, biceps, hamstrings and lower lat fibers are predominately fast twitch and respond best to the more intense effort that only the mighty pull-up can provide.
This makes zero sense. A more intense effort would be doing situps with plates, etc, if you wanted to work your abs, etc.

Still looks like BS to me.[/quote]

The stabilizers working during pull ups, deads and squats are important. Comparing the work your torso gets from heavy deads and overhead presses to direct ab work like weighted crunches is a mistake. is mistake. Several writers from this site have mentioned the importance of the big lifts in training the core. Mel Siff also makes a great argument for the fact that you dont need any additional ab work if you train intensly in the big lifts. You need to slow down a bit brother and think about what your saying.

[quote]Jersey5150 wrote:
The stabilizers working during pull ups, deads and squats are important.
Comparing the work your torso gets from heavy deads and overhead presses to direct ab work like weighted crunches is a mistake. is mistake. Several writers from this site have mentioned the importance of the big lifts in training the core. [/quote]

I do squats and deadlifts. That is how I train my core. I think squats and deadlifts make “chin corework” pretty irrelevant.

[quote]Dave2 wrote:
Pulldowns are for fat guys, women and newbies.

And sometimes for variety. But mostly for fat guys, women and newbies. :slight_smile:

[/quote]

Can I get an “Amen!”

[quote]rbnlaw wrote:
Dave2 wrote:
Pulldowns are for fat guys, women and newbies.

And sometimes for variety. But mostly for fat guys, women and newbies. :slight_smile:

Can I get an “Amen!”[/quote]

Amen

Pull-ups and chin-ups seperate the men from the boys. That’s why you see it empty most of the time.

[quote]Jay Sherman wrote:
Jersey5150 wrote:
The stabilizers working during pull ups, deads and squats are important.
Comparing the work your torso gets from heavy deads and overhead presses to direct ab work like weighted crunches is a mistake. is mistake. Several writers from this site have mentioned the importance of the big lifts in training the core.

I do squats and deadlifts. That is how I train my core. I think squats and deadlifts make “chin corework” pretty irrelevant. [/quote]

Your only core workouts are DLs and Squats?

The point of compound exercise is to work multiple muscles. Nuff said.

[quote]Bad John wrote:
Pull-ups and chin-ups seperate the men from the boys. That’s why you see it empty most of the time. [/quote]

Amen to this too!!

The boys say “pullups are too hard” the men say “hand me that plate, I need more weight”.

[quote]Bad John wrote:
Pull-ups and chin-ups seperate the men from the boys. That’s why you see it empty most of the time. [/quote]

Tru dat brother…tru dat…

OK. I’m on my way to the gym right now. If I can actually find the pull up bar, I’ll give it a try.

I think we have a pull-up bar. Not sure, really.

RB

OK. The results are in.

Don’t laugh.

3

And, yes, I do full body weight pull downs. Frightening. I guess I’ll start working on it.

RB