[quote]LiveFromThe781 wrote:
pull ups suck
row variations ftw.[/quote]
exactly
[quote]Alffi wrote:
elusive wrote:
Alffi wrote:
Do you think barbell and dumbbell moves are enough for decent lat development? Has anyone put on good size without pull-ups or cables?
Personally,aside from pullovers,I could not make them feel much at all and even that is a fairly compound lift.
I personally rely on pulldowns for most part. I would not touch a chin bar.
I built a majority of my lats with deads and bent over barbell rows. I feel that my lats and rest of my back are some of my better muscle groups. Also, I personally feel that chin-ups will be better for more overall lat development than wide grip pulldowns/ups. Why wouldn’t you do chin ups?
I believe all manner of rows,deads etc. never did anything for my lats,and consequently I believe them to be grossly underdeveloped since I really only figured them fairly recently.
I sucked at chins historically and I find them a bit inconvenient. Easier to just load weight in a machine,regardless of how inferior it may be in muscle recruitment etc.
[/quote]
Ok, first I assume that you are talking about width (as in improving your lat spread pose) right?
Well in that case then I’d agree that in most cases vertical pulling motions (pull-downs, rack chins, etc…) are better at building width than things like rows or deads (which are great for building thickness).
If you’ve really given chins a serious shot and found that they don’t work all that well for you, and that lat pull-downs or machines work better, then by all means keep doing them. Had you been more clear in your original question my original response to you would have been different.
I would suggest that you really give rack chins (as C_C mentioned above) a shot too. They’re a great back width exercise.
You could also try out “low cable rows”. They’re a row variation that is specifically designed to build width instead of thickness (due to the line of pull) and give you a fantastic stretch in your lats. Here is Dave Tate doing them with a rope attachment, but you can feel free to experiment with different attachments.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Alffi wrote:
elusive wrote:
Alffi wrote:
Do you think barbell and dumbbell moves are enough for decent lat development? Has anyone put on good size without pull-ups or cables?
Personally,aside from pullovers,I could not make them feel much at all and even that is a fairly compound lift.
I personally rely on pulldowns for most part. I would not touch a chin bar.
I built a majority of my lats with deads and bent over barbell rows. I feel that my lats and rest of my back are some of my better muscle groups. Also, I personally feel that chin-ups will be better for more overall lat development than wide grip pulldowns/ups. Why wouldn’t you do chin ups?
I believe all manner of rows,deads etc. never did anything for my lats,and consequently I believe them to be grossly underdeveloped since I really only figured them fairly recently.
I sucked at chins historically and I find them a bit inconvenient. Easier to just load weight in a machine,regardless of how inferior it may be in muscle recruitment etc.
Ok, first I assume that you are talking about width (as in improving your lat spread pose) right?
Well in that case then I’d agree that in most cases vertical pulling motions (pull-downs, rack chins, etc…) are better at building width than things like rows or deads (which are great for building thickness).
If you’ve really given chins a serious shot and found that they don’t work all that well for you, and that lat pull-downs or machines work better, then by all means keep doing them. Had you been more clear in your original question my original response to you would have been different.
I would suggest that you really give rack chins (as C_C mentioned above) a shot too. They’re a great back width exercise.
You could also try out “low cable rows”. They’re a row variation that is specifically designed to build width instead of thickness (due to the line of pull) and give you a fantastic stretch in your lats. Here is Dave Tate doing them with a rope attachment, but you can feel free to experiment with different attachments.
[/quote]
One thing to add is that the lats are a very big muscle that really must be worked from different angles for full development. This is because thickness supports width (spread). Can’t have a wide spread without supporting thickness. That would be like just working your rear delts only and expecting full delt development.
So IMO, you need both a horizontal and vertical exercise for full development and a wide spread.
Do pullups.
If you want nice lats then forget about what you have to do to get them.
Wide grip chins suck if your not good at them but there great once you get good at them.Do a search for recon rons pullup program.