Last Ways of Making Gains Before Roids

[quote]Fuzzyapple wrote:
Add some more ground beef and steak. I’m by no means a big guy at all but I’ve gained roughly 10lbs in 45days (not a huge amount but for me it is) just including that in my diet 2-3 times a day. Some has been fat but most of it has been muscle as I can see a visual difference.

Hell sometimes when I do feel like having a “traditional” breakfast I have steak and rice. I’m eating a steak and mixed greens as I write this post!!

EDIT: And yes I am having steak at 10:00am…[/quote]

You overcooked that steak. Where’s the blood???

\hijack

[quote]phatkins187 wrote:
You overcooked that steak. Where’s the blood???

\hijack[/quote]

Cooking steak abilities - Work in progress.

/hijack

[quote]lnname wrote:
over the last three years of lifting i’ve barely gained 10 pounds.[/quote]

Um… after the first six months you didn’t think something was wrong? Or the first 10 months? Or after 20 months of absolute minimal progress? Talk about missing the bus. Geez.

In your profile, you say: [quote]I have about 7 years experience with weights, a head full of knowledge, and some of the heaviest lifts in my uni gym[/quote]

I don’t know if you’ve got a “head full of knowledge” but you do have grande cajones to even claim that, with the condition you’re in.

What are you lifting in the basic exercises?

Also, I didn’t notice it yet, but what’s your current height and weight?

Like the guys have said, your diet sucks, and it’s worse that you’re so wishy-washy about it.

Read The Anti-Skinny Fat Manifesto and apply the info immediately:

Get your peri-workout nutrition in order. That’s a pre-workout shake and a during workout shake. Once those two are in place (your daily and peri-workout plan), I’d be very surprised if you don’t start adding weight fast.

Shucks. With dedication like this, it’s mind-bottling that you’re not closer to your goals. “Whoops. Outta milk. No other possible way for me to have this protein, which, ya know, is kinda what muscle is made out of. Eh, maybe tomorrow I’ll be more lucky.”

Come on, dude.

[quote]MaudDib wrote:

[quote]silverhydra wrote:

The second law of thermodynamics, energy cannot be created or destroyed, merely transposed.

Translation: You are not a caloric black hole, to gain weight (tissue = caloric storage), eat more; if you are not gaining weight at X amount of kcal, then eat more.

It’s not rocket science.
[/quote]

After much time lurking I finally signed up to respond to this wide spread sentiment lol.

Well, it’s not the first time I’ve see the “laws of thermodynamics,” being invoked when it comes to framing why you should eat more, but as always, it’s a bad way to frame the argument because it misunderstands the way digestion works.

A. The human body is not a closed system, so axioms following from the laws of thermodynamics don’t apply.

B. Digestion is complex biological process working on multiple levels of emergence; principles of particle physics don’t carry over to human digestion.

For an extreme illustration of this, take the various poisons that exist that can kill a person by not allowing them to digest food. It’s possible to die of starvation while getting plenty of food if you’re one of the unlucky few to be mistakenly ingesting these chemicals.

I get that people feel they have to drive home to others that they need to eat more to keep gaining weight. However, since there is also a limit to how much energy your body can effectively use to build muscle, it’s also important to consider what you eat, in terms of macronutrients as well as how it’s going to be digested.

In terms of nutrition, there is a severe lack of good peer-reviewed studies to guide choices when it comes to a diet for bulking. Really, everyone develops their own idea of what works for them over time based on reading and experimenting. Thinking of nutrition primarily just in terms of kcal in > kcal out is probably going to hinder that process. [/quote]

All good points, and all that I am aware of.

My post, however, was guided more by practicality than by truthful semantics. I would love to debate theories about digestion and nutrient absorption and utilization and non-caloric methods to ‘tip the scales’ in one way or another; this situation, however, is much too novice for me to mention those things. They would merely over-complicate and confuse.

If someone does not grasp the idea that more food = more weight gained (barring medical conditions or other toxins), then I do not wish to confuse them further with theories and anecdotes which may or may not apply.

OP - add to your diet an additional 2 pounds of the cheapest ground beef you can find. It doesn’t need to be cheap if you can afford the good stuff, but I just don’t want to hear any complaining about cost. You will gain serious weight, fast, and no I am not joking. You’ll easily gain 2 pounds a week doing this and it will be mostly muscle.

^^Mostly calories in = calories out. Mostly. TEF, hormones, etc have their roles. Essentially it IS a physics experiment though, but let’s not sidetrack this. The OP just needs to eat more. I can gain 10 pounds in 3 weeks for god’s sake and he took 3 years?!? People can gain 100 pounds of lean mass in 3 years. Come on OP up the beef!

^Thank you for agreeing with me and not knowing.

Op you do not need any kind of test, just a revamp of your diet like others have been stating.

Wait, 380kcal of Weetabix is enough to kill somebody?

I gotta be dead, cause when grains are concerned, I can eat over 1500kcal of any source without delay.

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]lnname wrote:
over the last three years of lifting i’ve barely gained 10 pounds.[/quote]

Um… after the first six months you didn’t think something was wrong? Or the first 10 months? Or after 20 months of absolute minimal progress? Talk about missing the bus. Geez.

In your profile, you say: [quote]I have about 7 years experience with weights, a head full of knowledge, and some of the heaviest lifts in my uni gym[/quote]

I don’t know if you’ve got a “head full of knowledge” but you do have grande cajones to even claim that, with the condition you’re in.

What are you lifting in the basic exercises?

Also, I didn’t notice it yet, but what’s your current height and weight?

Like the guys have said, your diet sucks, and it’s worse that you’re so wishy-washy about it.

Read The Anti-Skinny Fat Manifesto and apply the info immediately:

Get your peri-workout nutrition in order. That’s a pre-workout shake and a during workout shake. Once those two are in place (your daily and peri-workout plan), I’d be very surprised if you don’t start adding weight fast.

Shucks. With dedication like this, it’s mind-bottling that you’re not closer to your goals. “Whoops. Outta milk. No other possible way for me to have this protein, which, ya know, is kinda what muscle is made out of. Eh, maybe tomorrow I’ll be more lucky.”

Come on, dude.[/quote]

haha you got me! I suck at a lot of things, and for me becoming strong is probably chief among them. Compared to the rest of uni gym I own, but I get the impression that no one on t nation would be proud of my stats

6foot 1

155-160 pounds- not sure about bodyfat, but less than a cm on any part of my body

(decline bench 176)
bench 156
squat 220; with good form, I spent a lot of time getting heavier weights to almost parrallel, so as my technique improves this should hopefully shoot up
deadlift 330; with any luck i’ll break 350 today
(Is that disproportionate?)

One thing that is of note is that as well as being an extream ectomorph, I am dyspraxic (a dysability that basicilay involves sucking at most things, esspecially strength and co ordination) although after years of training(6 years of weights, rugby as a teenager, parkour and most recently a year of Tnation style powerlifting) I feel like I have pretty much beaten my condition, and joined normality.

I feel like I can defend the head full of knowledge statement. Whilst I’m on Tnation to learn, I have 11 letters after my name, and am one of the best funded research students and my university. In the context of weightlifting, its mainly just biomechanics and forms, my nutrient timing clearly needs improvement.

You are about the same size, with about the same lifts as me currently. I calculated my caloric needs to be around 3500-4000kcal, and on strict days I eat around 2000kcal. I need to eat about double of what I currently do if I want to gain.

How the hell can you say that you are the strongest in your Uni gym with those numbers?

[quote]MaudDib wrote:

[quote]silverhydra wrote:

The second law of thermodynamics, energy cannot be created or destroyed, merely transposed.

Translation: You are not a caloric black hole, to gain weight (tissue = caloric storage), eat more; if you are not gaining weight at X amount of kcal, then eat more.

It’s not rocket science.
[/quote]

After much time lurking I finally signed up to respond to this wide spread sentiment lol.

Well, it’s not the first time I’ve see the “laws of thermodynamics,” being invoked when it comes to framing why you should eat more, but as always, it’s a bad way to frame the argument because it misunderstands the way digestion works.

A. The human body is not a closed system, so axioms following from the laws of thermodynamics don’t apply.

B. Digestion is complex biological process working on multiple levels of emergence; principles of particle physics don’t carry over to human digestion.

For an extreme illustration of this, take the various poisons that exist that can kill a person by not allowing them to digest food. It’s possible to die of starvation while getting plenty of food if you’re one of the unlucky few to be mistakenly ingesting these chemicals.

I get that people feel they have to drive home to others that they need to eat more to keep gaining weight. However, since there is also a limit to how much energy your body can effectively use to build muscle, it’s also important to consider what you eat, in terms of macronutrients as well as how it’s going to be digested.

In terms of nutrition, there is a severe lack of good peer-reviewed studies to guide choices when it comes to a diet for bulking. Really, everyone develops their own idea of what works for them over time based on reading and experimenting. Thinking of nutrition primarily just in terms of kcal in > kcal out is probably going to hinder that process. [/quote]

People like you are the reason so many don’t make any progress reaching their physique goals.

Considering roids at 6’1 160lbs… that sucks :confused:

Seriously, it makes thing 10x easier to make sure you have about enough calories if you eat the same thing everyday

You need to eat more, and my guess is you need to eat more to the point you feel like shit and look like a pregnant woman.

Aka you will need to force feed yourself and not go by hunger

If you feel like eating all this from solid food is too hard, get the needed cals from shake with EVO and natural PB

[quote]Getting Closer wrote:
How the hell can you say that you are the strongest in your Uni gym with those numbers?[/quote]

hmmmn; I’m shocked that you live in england and would ask that. Pretty much no one lifts weights here.

My uni gym has two floors; more cross fit, running and cycling machines than I care to count; but only 250kgs of dumbel plates. The worst part is that since I’ve been here only once has that sheer lack of plates been a problem.

There are litterally only three other guys that I run into who have similar or better numbers than me. If I stop and have a conversation with most of the guys who are there, they’ll ask me for advise on hitting the “big numbers”.

Last term I was squatting 300+ pounds, but because there was no one who would know enough about form to tell me, I slowly stopped getting to parallel, so now I’m doing tons of box squats just to get my form up to scratch.

Yeah dude, you need to eat. I’ve got friends in the same boat, they just couldn’t figure out why they wouldn’t “grow” like some other guys.

Everyone say you gotta eat, yes thats correct. You have to find out how much exactly you’re eating to get a baseline.

Above I read the statement to eat 2lbs of groundbeef/day. That’s the best advice here.

Put it in a big pot, cook it, dump 2 cans of beans in there and eat it. Have protein shakes before, during and After training for some simple calories peri-workout.

Try that see what happens.

Damn; I had never had that spelled out to me, thats true. Every day you could also compare the amount you eat. It would be like a progressive overload in the kitchen.

My plan is to use bulgar wheet as the basis of a standard daily meal; wikapedia says-

"Bulgur is more nutritious than rice and couscous, because it contains more fiber and more vitamins and minerals and has a lower glycemic index than white rice or couscous [3]. Bulgur has a glycemic index of 46.

100 grams unprepared bulgur contains approximately:

* Energy: 1500 kJ (360 kcal)
* Dietary fiber: 8 g
* Protein: 12.5 g
* Carbohydrate: 69 g whereof 0.8 g sugars
* Fat: 1.75 g whereof 0.2 g saturated fat
* Potassium: 410mg [4]"

And I know that just yesterday I was telling everyone how much I love it. Some simple salad, and some meat would make something I could stick in tupperware and lug around campus with me. Day by day I could weigh it and improve…

[quote]lnname wrote:

[quote]Getting Closer wrote:
How the hell can you say that you are the strongest in your Uni gym with those numbers?[/quote]

hmmmn; I’m shocked that you live in england and would ask that. Pretty much no one lifts weights here.

My uni gym has two floors; more cross fit, running and cycling machines than I care to count; but only 250kgs of dumbel plates. The worst part is that since I’ve been here only once has that sheer lack of plates been a problem.

There are litterally only three other guys that I run into who have similar or better numbers than me. If I stop and have a conversation with most of the guys who are there, they’ll ask me for advise on hitting the “big numbers”.

Last term I was squatting 300+ pounds, but because there was no one who would know enough about form to tell me, I slowly stopped getting to parallel, so now I’m doing tons of box squats just to get my form up to scratch.[/quote]

Lol, yeh I was going to put “but then you do live in England as well”, kind of embarrassing to live in England sometimes haha. But I did think that there would be some strong people at your Uni. Don’t they have a rugby team or anything?

[quote]lnname wrote:

Damn; I had never had that spelled out to me, thats true. Every day you could also compare the amount you eat. It would be like a progressive overload in the kitchen.

My plan is to use bulgar wheet as the basis of a standard daily meal; wikapedia says-

"Bulgur is more nutritious than rice and couscous, because it contains more fiber and more vitamins and minerals and has a lower glycemic index than white rice or couscous [3]. Bulgur has a glycemic index of 46.

100 grams unprepared bulgur contains approximately:

* Energy: 1500 kJ (360 kcal)
* Dietary fiber: 8 g
* Protein: 12.5 g
* Carbohydrate: 69 g whereof 0.8 g sugars
* Fat: 1.75 g whereof 0.2 g saturated fat
* Potassium: 410mg [4]"

And I know that just yesterday I was telling everyone how much I love it. Some simple salad, and some meat would make something I could stick in tupperware and lug around campus with me. Day by day I could weigh it and improve…

[/quote]

From what I read my guess is that you get enough carbs in your diet but lack enough protein

1.5g/lb at least, just that would probably make a big difference

Todays lifiting sucked ass, as I didn’t get a new deadlift max rep. I think if I tried for 340 rather thhan 350 I would have made it, but i was just to eager to see those extra plates on the bar.

I ate a ton today, even though I woke up late.

10:00- 380 kals, wheetabix and milk (on the days when I don’t run out of milk like yesterday I normally try for 570, but I was up to late to spend any extra time getting up.) took some no2 as well as all the usuals

10:30- what should have been a nice begining of the day protien shake became my pre gym workout shake.

10:45- workout, epic fail no new max, and to top it all off, i spent so long trying to get the barbel above my knees I was to tierd to do any real support work, and went home mad.

11:30- post workout shake

1:00-3:30 Insane banquet. A really good friend of mine took about eight of us to some amazing chinese restraunt, and ordered more food then I’ve ever seen in my life. I can’t even explain what I ate, but I know it included baby squid and a whole deep fried sea-bass
(so far these last two days that i’ve been keeping a food log for have been fairly a typical, although if I am going to bring a box of bulgar and beef around with me wherever I go, I’m guessing the next few days will probably seem as a typical)

5:30 I was still stuffed, so vegetables

21:00 Leftovers, whole bunch of prawns rice and mushrooms.

22:30 I read zraws comment, and re think my entire approach to food.

later tonight i shall have 1 more meal, and then a pre bed shake.

Thanks everyone! Starting this forum seems like one of the best steps I’ve ever taken towards getting massive

[quote]Getting Closer wrote:
Lol, yeh I was going to put “but then you do live in England as well”, kind of embarrassing to live in England sometimes haha. But I did think that there would be some strong people at your Uni. Don’t they have a rugby team or anything?[/quote]

We do, nice guys of the 3 other guys I was talking about 1 of them is on the team, the others are a boxer and american football player. All physics masters students bizzarely.

The other big problem is that there is a gym that I didn’t hear about until this term, thats cheeper and packed with all kinds of barbell plates. I get the impression, that everyone who is serious and an undergrad goes there, whereas masters students don’t have the time for the commute so stay on campus.