T Nation

Last Ways of Making Gains Before Roids

Every day I start off with my pills, omegas, vitamins, and joint health.

I eat enough wheetabix to kill someone, down a protien shake and my nutrition is started for the day. On workout days I add No2 and use a blend of maltodextrin/protien as the base for my pre workout shake.

I eat approximately every three hours, and I just about succeed to get most of them to be whole food meals.

Becasue I am in a big bodyweight plateau I am considering using AAS. But I would like to try and make as big gains I can naturaly before I start.

What would people recomend?

Educate yourself in the fine art of eating proper whole foods…

Dear God OP, what do you think is going to come from this post? Anything but a shitstorm?

If a bodyweight plateau makes you consider AAS, then I think that would be conclusive enough to show you are too misguided and confused to handle AAS correctly and safely.

Wow, Wheetabix is pretty hardcore bro, I think Branch Warren downs those things like candy-lol.

Seriously, post your diet and let some of us look at it. 9 out of 10 times the issue is poor eating habbits. Remember, you don’t know what you don’t know, and chances are, your diet’s not very good.

S

[quote]silverhydra wrote:
Dear God OP, what do you think is going to come from this post? Anything but a shitstorm?

If a bodyweight plateau makes you consider AAS, then I think that would be conclusive enough to show you are too misguided and confused to handle AAS correctly and safely.[/quote]

Correct…

i hear creatinez has legal roids in it

Post your diet…

[quote]silverhydra wrote:
Dear God OP, what do you think is going to come from this post? Anything but a shitstorm?

If a bodyweight plateau makes you consider AAS, then I think that would be conclusive enough to show you are too misguided and confused to handle AAS correctly and safely.[/quote]

Ok over the last three years of lifting i’ve barely gained 10 pounds, if that wouldn’t make you consider the juice I don’t know what would.

My strength is still shooting up after 1 year of 531, tomorow i am hoping to put another 20 pounds on my 1 rep max deadlift.

I don’t think I have the maturity for AAS, and honestly i don’t think i can afford them, so I’m prepared to wait another year or so, and focus on doing everything I can until then. If a shitstorm comes, and I learn one thing, I welcome that shitstorm.

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Wow, Wheetabix is pretty hardcore bro, I think Branch Warren downs those things like candy-lol.

Seriously, post your diet and let some of us look at it. 9 out of 10 times the issue is poor eating habbits. Remember, you don’t know what you don’t know, and chances are, your diet’s not very good.

S
[/quote]
haha! thanks man, thats just the kind of post i was looking for. My diet varies from day to day, -like most people I like variety, and i also like big roast dinners and leftovers, so from week to week the meats i eat vary a lot.

I’ll start tabulating this just after lunch!

[quote]lnname wrote:

[quote]silverhydra wrote:
Dear God OP, what do you think is going to come from this post? Anything but a shitstorm?

If a bodyweight plateau makes you consider AAS, then I think that would be conclusive enough to show you are too misguided and confused to handle AAS correctly and safely.[/quote]

Ok over the last three years of lifting i’ve barely gained 10 pounds, if that wouldn’t make you consider the juice I don’t know what would.

My strength is still shooting up after 1 year of 531, tomorow i am hoping to put another 20 pounds on my 1 rep max deadlift.

I don’t think I have the maturity for AAS, and honestly i don’t think i can afford them, so I’m prepared to wait another year or so, and focus on doing everything I can until then. If a shitstorm comes, and I learn one thing, I welcome that shitstorm.[/quote]

The second law of thermodynamics, energy cannot be created or destroyed, merely transposed.

Translation: You are not a caloric black hole, to gain weight (tissue = caloric storage), eat more; if you are not gaining weight at X amount of kcal, then eat more.

It’s not rocket science.

You haven’t put on weight? As a wise man once said, “EAT MORE MOTHERFUCKER!”

[quote]silverhydra wrote:

[quote]lnname wrote:

[quote]silverhydra wrote:
Dear God OP, what do you think is going to come from this post? Anything but a shitstorm?

If a bodyweight plateau makes you consider AAS, then I think that would be conclusive enough to show you are too misguided and confused to handle AAS correctly and safely.[/quote]

Ok over the last three years of lifting i’ve barely gained 10 pounds, if that wouldn’t make you consider the juice I don’t know what would.

My strength is still shooting up after 1 year of 531, tomorow i am hoping to put another 20 pounds on my 1 rep max deadlift.

I don’t think I have the maturity for AAS, and honestly i don’t think i can afford them, so I’m prepared to wait another year or so, and focus on doing everything I can until then. If a shitstorm comes, and I learn one thing, I welcome that shitstorm.[/quote]

The second law of thermodynamics, energy cannot be created or destroyed, merely transposed.

Translation: You are not a caloric black hole, to gain weight (tissue = caloric storage), eat more; if you are not gaining weight at X amount of kcal, then eat more.

It’s not rocket science.
[/quote]
x2 on this.

OP, you look really lean. Eat more food. Figure out how many kcal you’re eating daily now, and add 500kcal/day to that.

Not trying to be harsh here but, your post is a little vague. Pretty much everyone who is serious about training (or at least the majority of people on this site) are trying to make “gains” but their goals are widely varied and as a result, what may be successful results for one person is lack of progress for another.

I notice that your profile says you’ve been lifting for 7 years. Was progress made all seven years or was there a period of time that you (like many of us here) went to the gym without really knowing what you were doing? If that’s the case, how many of those years were “good years”?

Height, weight, lift numbers and some general info about your diet and workout program would go a long way to helping you get some good advice. More often than not, lack of gains is a diet issue. However, expect the advice you receive to be a fairly general until you can give more info.

[quote]silverhydra wrote:

The second law of thermodynamics, energy cannot be created or destroyed, merely transposed.

Translation: You are not a caloric black hole, to gain weight (tissue = caloric storage), eat more; if you are not gaining weight at X amount of kcal, then eat more.

It’s not rocket science.
[/quote]

After much time lurking I finally signed up to respond to this wide spread sentiment lol.

Well, it’s not the first time I’ve see the “laws of thermodynamics,” being invoked when it comes to framing why you should eat more, but as always, it’s a bad way to frame the argument because it misunderstands the way digestion works.

A. The human body is not a closed system, so axioms following from the laws of thermodynamics don’t apply.

B. Digestion is complex biological process working on multiple levels of emergence; principles of particle physics don’t carry over to human digestion.

For an extreme illustration of this, take the various poisons that exist that can kill a person by not allowing them to digest food. It’s possible to die of starvation while getting plenty of food if you’re one of the unlucky few to be mistakenly ingesting these chemicals.

I get that people feel they have to drive home to others that they need to eat more to keep gaining weight. However, since there is also a limit to how much energy your body can effectively use to build muscle, it’s also important to consider what you eat, in terms of macronutrients as well as how it’s going to be digested.

In terms of nutrition, there is a severe lack of good peer-reviewed studies to guide choices when it comes to a diet for bulking. Really, everyone develops their own idea of what works for them over time based on reading and experimenting. Thinking of nutrition primarily just in terms of kcal in > kcal out is probably going to hinder that process.

When you post your diet, don’t forget to include whatever you do for peri-workout nutrition. It was something I ignored for over a year. Once I started to get it, I started making my best progress.

[quote]lnname wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Wow, Wheetabix is pretty hardcore bro, I think Branch Warren downs those things like candy-lol.

Seriously, post your diet and let some of us look at it. 9 out of 10 times the issue is poor eating habbits. Remember, you don’t know what you don’t know, and chances are, your diet’s not very good.

S
[/quote]
haha! thanks man, thats just the kind of post i was looking for. My diet varies from day to day, -like most people I like variety, and i also like big roast dinners and leftovers, so from week to week the meats i eat vary a lot.

I’ll start tabulating this just after lunch![/quote]

Okay, now herein lies the problem,… you don’t know what you’re eating. I’ve found that most people trying to gain, overguess their numbers, while most people trying to lose, underguess. The only way to know, is to accurately write things down for a week or so.

Sure, I switch up what sources of protein or carbs I get at certain feeding times, but I also always have an outline with sample combinations already plugged in to a spreadsheet and tallied up for reference… and even if you’re eating a ton of meat every day, if it’s lean meat, it’s probably not even adding to as many calories as you may think.

Yates always said that if you don’t know exactly what you’re doing, then you can’t even begin to make adjustments trying to improve.

S

[quote]MaudDib wrote:

[quote]silverhydra wrote:

The second law of thermodynamics, energy cannot be created or destroyed, merely transposed.

Translation: You are not a caloric black hole, to gain weight (tissue = caloric storage), eat more; if you are not gaining weight at X amount of kcal, then eat more.

It’s not rocket science.
[/quote]

After much time lurking I finally signed up to respond to this wide spread sentiment lol.

Well, it’s not the first time I’ve see the “laws of thermodynamics,” being invoked when it comes to framing why you should eat more, but as always, it’s a bad way to frame the argument because it misunderstands the way digestion works.

A. The human body is not a closed system, so axioms following from the laws of thermodynamics don’t apply.

B. Digestion is complex biological process working on multiple levels of emergence; principles of particle physics don’t carry over to human digestion.

For an extreme illustration of this, take the various poisons that exist that can kill a person by not allowing them to digest food. It’s possible to die of starvation while getting plenty of food if you’re one of the unlucky few to be mistakenly ingesting these chemicals.

I get that people feel they have to drive home to others that they need to eat more to keep gaining weight. However, since there is also a limit to how much energy your body can effectively use to build muscle, it’s also important to consider what you eat, in terms of macronutrients as well as how it’s going to be digested.

In terms of nutrition, there is a severe lack of good peer-reviewed studies to guide choices when it comes to a diet for bulking. Really, everyone develops their own idea of what works for them over time based on reading and experimenting. Thinking of nutrition primarily just in terms of kcal in > kcal out is probably going to hinder that process. [/quote]

As a Physics student I often spot a lot of references to mainstream concepts being used to explain lifting/diet methodologies/systems/whatever in a misguided fashion. I generally understand the gist of the idea they are trying to get across but sometimes I can’t help but cringe a little. Lots of buzz words/phrases make it there too.

That being said bitching over definitions instead of concepts is nitpicking and somewhat irritating - god knows I hate it when people do it to me. A flatmate was trying to tell me that English literature is not only a science but is the same degree of… science-ness(?) as Physics and the other “hard” sciences… Her argument was based on the Oxford English Dictionary definition of science.

[/mini rant]

Regardless OP chances are you simply need more quality foods (that is… more quantity AND quality) - Weetabix generally isn’t considered the breakfast dish of champions.

[quote]benmoore wrote:

[quote]MaudDib wrote:

[quote]silverhydra wrote:

The second law of thermodynamics, energy cannot be created or destroyed, merely transposed.

Translation: You are not a caloric black hole, to gain weight (tissue = caloric storage), eat more; if you are not gaining weight at X amount of kcal, then eat more.

It’s not rocket science.
[/quote]

After much time lurking I finally signed up to respond to this wide spread sentiment lol.

Well, it’s not the first time I’ve see the “laws of thermodynamics,” being invoked when it comes to framing why you should eat more, but as always, it’s a bad way to frame the argument because it misunderstands the way digestion works.

A. The human body is not a closed system, so axioms following from the laws of thermodynamics don’t apply.

B. Digestion is complex biological process working on multiple levels of emergence; principles of particle physics don’t carry over to human digestion.

For an extreme illustration of this, take the various poisons that exist that can kill a person by not allowing them to digest food. It’s possible to die of starvation while getting plenty of food if you’re one of the unlucky few to be mistakenly ingesting these chemicals.

I get that people feel they have to drive home to others that they need to eat more to keep gaining weight. However, since there is also a limit to how much energy your body can effectively use to build muscle, it’s also important to consider what you eat, in terms of macronutrients as well as how it’s going to be digested.

In terms of nutrition, there is a severe lack of good peer-reviewed studies to guide choices when it comes to a diet for bulking. Really, everyone develops their own idea of what works for them over time based on reading and experimenting. Thinking of nutrition primarily just in terms of kcal in > kcal out is probably going to hinder that process. [/quote]

As a Physics student I often spot a lot of references to mainstream concepts being used to explain lifting/diet methodologies/systems/whatever in a misguided fashion. I generally understand the gist of the idea they are trying to get across but sometimes I can’t help but cringe a little. Lots of buzz words/phrases make it there too.

That being said bitching over definitions instead of concepts is nitpicking and somewhat irritating - god knows I hate it when people do it to me. A flatmate was trying to tell me that English literature is not only a science but is the same degree of… science-ness(?) as Physics and the other “hard” sciences… Her argument was based on the Oxford English Dictionary definition of science.

[/mini rant]

Regardless OP chances are you simply need more quality foods (that is… more quantity AND quality) - Weetabix generally isn’t considered the breakfast dish of champions.[/quote]

hahaha! humanities suck. (I may be moving to oxford uni in a couple of months!)

back on topic.

This is some great advise, if no one minds I’d like to start writting a food log here. As i haven’t measured anything today here are some approximate numbers:

8:30 breakfast:
380kcal of wheetabix (judging by box labels)
skipped protien shake- out of milk

12:00snack:
50 grams of leftover roast beef

1:00 1st lunch
100 grams tuna, big bowl of rice, beans,lettice onions,spices(chinese housemates recipee)

2:30 2nd lunch
more of the same

4:15
apple

5:30
another bowl of the tuna n rice …

and thats what i’ve done so far, tonight I may be out for a meal for supper, about 7, and will probably have another meal before bed, either leftovers from this vast tuna and rice thing I made or more likely a nice bedtime protien shake, which I would add a load of oats to, so i can bummp up my carbs for the day.

All that being said, I probably made more tuna and rice for lunch than I should have, most days I get much more of a variety of meats

thanks everyone! I’m really looking forward to eating some more, weighing it and discussing it tommorow

Add some more ground beef and steak. I’m by no means a big guy at all but I’ve gained roughly 10lbs in 45days (not a huge amount but for me it is) just including that in my diet 2-3 times a day. Some has been fat but most of it has been muscle as I can see a visual difference.

Hell sometimes when I do feel like having a “traditional” breakfast I have steak and rice. I’m eating a steak and mixed greens as I write this post!!