T Nation

Last Press Conference/Our Divide


President Obama just completed his last Press Conference.

Overall, I thought is was great. (Just like his Farewell Speech). He was thorough…insightful…and as usual, optimistic.

My favorite line was…“You know what? America is going to be okay…we’re going to be okay…”

What stuck me was the Political Commentary afterwards. To hear Rick Santorum give his views on the Press Conference made me think not only did we not hear the same Press Conference…but did we hear it in completely different Alien languages? Did I hear the President speaking English…and Santorum heard the words of some Plutonian Mutant Warrior or something?

The divide is great, folks…and I see it becoming greater…

But the President leaves me optimistic.

“…We are going to be okay…”…


Of course we’re going to be okay. The man who spent 300 days on the golf course during his presidency, the one who sided with Russia and China against Israel, the one who drew a red line in the sand and then let Russia drive right through it in Syria and Eastern Europe, the one who refused to compromise and helped pass a healthcare law full of holes while lying about the reality of its economics, the man who aggrandized Castro, freed terrorists, and pardoned traitors, is gone. Of course, now he’s all worried about Russia. But hey, he was articulate and cried quite a bit.



I hope Conservatives keep as thorough of a “Cut-and-Paste” list of apparent “failures” on Trump as they have on President Obama.

Doubtful…but we’ll see.


Always make sure you define those who disagree with your political positions using broad political categories, and dodge points that hit home.


I sure will, Zeb…uh…I mean “sunnbeaches”…


President Wilson played 1200 rounds of golf during his two terms; Pres. Eisenhower, 800.

Obama has provided more aid to Israel than any other POTUS.

The ‘red line’ concerned Assad, not Russia.

It was the GOP who refused to compromise on healthcare.

Obama on the death of Castro: “At this time of Fidel Castro’s passing, we extend a hand of friendship to the Cuban people. We know that this moment fills Cubans - in Cuba and in the United States - with powerful emotions, recalling the countless ways in which Fidel Castro altered the course of individual lives, families, and of the Cuban nation. History will record and judge the enormous impact of this singular figure on the people and world around him.”

Rivera had served 35 years. He is now 74. He was not convicted of a capital-type crime. He is the last member of his organization to be in prison; some members were given clemency as early as 1999, as their sentences were considered disproportionate to their crimes. (Rivera too had been offered clemency in 1999, but he declined the offer because it didn’t include every member of his group.)

Chelsea Manning’s sentence was commuted; she was not pardoned. Further, she was not convicted of treason.


For @Mufasa :slight_smile:


And of course, one for Zeb


Amusing. You can neither debate no identify what it is with which you disagree with any specificity.

I’m actually fascinated with the phenomenon of those who glom on to the “standard” political position of the era and use it to prop up their own failings intellectually. In our era it is the middle left position, politically correct, globalist, pro deficit spending, and very week internationally because they cannot appreciate that’s there are entire countries who do not share our values.

Let me know if you have anything worth responding to. I’ve given you some ideas.


When I start to see that “Trump List”…I sure will.


Much better response.

You have to go back to an entirely different era to find golf comparisons. I’ll have to check your data but assume you’re correct.

If you think Syria is not a proxy war then you need to pay a little bit more attention to our history with Russia. Russian combat aircraft and special forces have been directly involved. You didn’t respond to my point on Eastern Europe.

Obamacare was passed without Republican involvement. It will die a good death as a result. You can cast blame on Republicansi but it’s generally up to those who seek to pass legislation to seek contribution and buy in from the other side so that it will survive transition. That didn’t happen.

His “singular figure” comment pissed off the Cuban community near me and rightfully so. He’s also shut off asylum for Cubans which I can read as nothing more than a cut at a community who tends to vote Republican.

Rivera should have been executed. The jackass refused the deal offered him by Clinton even though his group murdered and bombed. You’re also forgetting Guantanamo in your response.

Manning has played a brilliant game. He’s considered a traitor by those who matter. As for commute versus pardon, thank you for correcting it. You actually noticed.

You’re thinking about the points. I appreciate that.


That is correct; I do not think Syria is a proxy war. Obama made an explicit statement to that effect in October.

Much to the consternation of the Russians, Obama established a ‘missile shield’ in Romania and Poland. Of late, he deployed thousands of troops to Poland.

An observation entirely consistent with my assertion above.

This remains to be seen.

"But with Obama’s blessing, the Senate, through its Finance Committee, took a different tack, and became the fulcrum for a potential grand bargain on health reform. Chairman Max Baucus, in the spring of 2009, signaled his desire to find a bipartisan compromise, working especially closely with Grassley, his dear friend and Republican counterpart, who had been deeply involved in crafting the Republican alternative to Clintoncare. Baucus and Grassley convened an informal group of three Democrats and three Republicans on the committee, which became known as the “Gang of Six.” They covered the parties’ ideological bases; the other GOPers were conservative Mike Enzi of Wyoming and moderate Olympia Snowe of Maine, and the Democrats were liberal Jeff Bingaman of New Mexico and moderate Kent Conrad of North Dakota.

Baucus very deliberately started the talks with a template that was the core of the 1993-4 Republican plan, built around an individual mandate and exchanges with private insurers—much to the chagrin of many Democrats and liberals who wanted, if not a single-payer system, at least one with a public insurance option."

“Singular figure” is hardly aggrandizing. Hitler was a ‘singular figure’ as well, for example.

We are normalizing relations with Cuba. This is part of that process.

Gitmo should never have been established, and is a continuing stain on the US. Its detainees should have their status changed to either POWs or criminals, and they should be treated accordingly. Either way, Gitmo should close.

My pleasure.


I am headed to bed since I have work tomorrow, but before I do I must ask, do you actually buy into what you just posted? If so I’ll respond in more detail when I have time.

Normalizing relations with a dictatorial regime that can give us nothing and without receiving any guarantee of improvement of human rights seems cruel to me, particularly when we start sending refugees back to be executed.

The proxy war statement is naive unless you are simply saying that Obama refused to engage (which he did after drawing a line in the sand, which only weakened him). Either we again create spheres of influence with Russia and China or we draw red lines regarding human rights. It’s difficult to have it both ways. I personally don’t think we are strong or wealthy enough for the latter.

Posting The Atlantic article is a bit of a one sided viewpoint. Even PBS has pointed out how much Obama simply ignored republican input.

While comparing Castro to Hitler is apropos, you should refer publicly to Hitler as a singular figure that history will judge one way or the other, and see how that goes. The fact is that even the moderate left does seem to adore its leftist dictators.

As for Gitmo, we live in a dangerous world. If you think our enemies care about human rights then you should spend some time living in Russia or China. If someone is willing to bomb and murder civilians then I really don’t care that we lock them up indefinitely. That’s hardly a stain. Maybe we should just get them to pinky promise to be good.


slime ball convinces people he can suspend arithmetic


What we have done for 60 years doesn’t seem cruel? Also, the Castro regime is teetering. When Raul dies, expect changes. And by normalizing relations, Obama has increased the chance that those changes will be deeper and more substantive.

That’s exactly what I’m saying. Obama realized that the few ‘good guys’ in Syria (read: not Al-Nusra or the like) were not strong enough to defeat Assad’s forces, even with our backing. Unless we wanted to put boots on the ground and fight the Russians directly (which is not a proxy war), it wasn’t going to happen. Further, the Russians are fighting alongside the Turks–a NATO ally–in Aleppo. The only thing more absurd than fighting Russia over Syria would have been fighting a NATO partner over it.

Obama’s ‘red line’ comment was a mistake.

The Atlantic article provided factual, verifiable information about how the Dems reached across the aisle. If you have info that disputes the specific claims made in the Atlantic article, have at it. But waving your hands and saying it’s one-sided is not a refutation.

Surely you’re not drawing an equivalency between Castro and Hitler…

Gitmo is more than just a mockery of our values. It is a recruiting tool for jihadists. It justifies the abuse of Americans captured in battle. It impairs our ability to lobby against human-rights abuses in other countries.


You’re a true believer. I had to go check your other comments to confirm. Enjoy the next 4-8 years and know that you only have yourself and others like you to blame.

When you want to learn that terrorists use anything and everything as recruiting tools, that Obama failed to get consensus because he played games (I referenced the PBS review that aired last night, not to mention anyone who has payed anything but sycophantic attention knows this), and that yes reasonable comparisons can be made between Hitler and Castro (or Stalin, Mao and numerous other murderous dictators around the world, although you will notice that I am not the one who first drew the comparison (do you read what you write or just spew forth?)), then you may be able to learn to discuss things rationally and from a moderate perspective. My experience with message boards is that, like you, most people are either far left or far right and incapable of independent thought. There is much could be achieved if the parties would start speaking with each other again, but they’ve learned that they do so at their own peril because their constituents prefer this game.


Obama’s last press conference…hmm


And…you can keep your own doctor!

Uh huh…


And don’t forget Obama’s “Red-line” regarding Syria.


IRS targeting conservative groups.


“There is no spying on Americans”