T Nation

Last Meal of Day - Need Input


#1

Im trying to lean out and have good success in the past. My trainer recommend a new twist on my diet. I'd Like your thoughts. He has recommended:

-last meal of the day should be no later than 6:30 (dinner). No food after this time since my energy output is so low that time of night. He thinks those calories would be better utilized during the day
-have protein + carbs before my AM training session. I thought the carbs before my weights and cardio would interfere with fat burning. He says no, since he said I will need the protein and the carbs since I will have not eaten since 6:30pm the previous night and will need that boost

I normally would have some protein before bed but ditch the carbs before my lifting and cardio. His suggestion is a new twist.

Would like your input as well.

-Ghost


#3

Simply not enough info provided to make a determination. How many carbs per day are you currently consuming? Yes, if you are addicted to carbs and your body needs them to function then training fasted probably won’t work for you.

What are you taking for Biotest supps, if any? A lot of their products could work well in your case.

I personally eat later than 6:30 but that is because I don’t train until about 5:30, so my last mean is at about 7:30 at night.

But for the most part, fasted cardio helps you burn fat if you are trying to lean out. Consuming carbs before you workout probably isn’t the best idea unless your body physically can’t handle a workout without them.


#4

Your trainer is simply wrong. Overall energy intake vs expenditure at the end of the day is what’s going to ultimately dictate whether or not you gain or lose fat.


#5

[quote]bdiddy5522 wrote:
Simply not enough info provided to make a determination. How many carbs per day are you currently consuming? Yes, if you are addicted to carbs and your body needs them to function then training fasted probably won’t work for you.

What are you taking for Biotest supps, if any? A lot of their products could work well in your case.

I personally eat later than 6:30 but that is because I don’t train until about 5:30, so my last mean is at about 7:30 at night.

But for the most part, fasted cardio helps you burn fat if you are trying to lean out. Consuming carbs before you workout probably isn’t the best idea unless your body physically can’t handle a workout without them. [/quote]

Good question. Here are the details:

Pre-workout: 30g of whey protein, 25g of maltodextrin for carbs, along with BCAAs
Post workout: 30g of whey, 30g of casein, 100g of maltodextrin
3 additional meals that average 60g of protein, 50g of complex carbs, 35g of fat
Stop eating at 6:30
Total approximate calories = 3,100,
240g protein, 275g carbs, 105g fat

Again, key questions are whether I should have the 25g of carbs pre-lifting and cardio (30 min) and whether I should continue not having the pre-bedtime protein. Goal is to lean out.


#6

I think your carbs are fine around your workout window. Maybe cut your 100 gram dose post workout down to 50 and see how that goes. Perhaps cut them back around your other meals also. I try to keep carbs low except around my workout window. Doing this has allowed me to get to 10.5% body fat.

As for a bedtime protein, I would keep doing it. A couple hard boiled eggs is a good choice, and helps increase insulin sensitivity.


#7

[quote]ghost87 wrote:
Im trying to lean out and have good success in the past. My trainer recommend a new twist on my diet. I’d Like your thoughts. He has recommended:

-last meal of the day should be no later than 6:30 (dinner). No food after this time since my energy output is so low that time of night. He thinks those calories would be better utilized during the day
-have protein + carbs before my AM training session. I thought the carbs before my weights and cardio would interfere with fat burning. He says no, since he said I will need the protein and the carbs since I will have not eaten since 6:30pm the previous night and will need that boost

I normally would have some protein before bed but ditch the carbs before my lifting and cardio. His suggestion is a new twist.

Would like your input as well.

-Ghost[/quote]
last meal of the day can be when ever you want. Net macros over a 24hr period is what is important, timing can be ignored. I train fasted for my AM training session with a meal an hour or so before sleeping. Losing an hour sleep to have that preworkout meal is unproductive.
Ask your trainer for studies to back his claims.


#8

[quote]ghost87 wrote:

[quote]bdiddy5522 wrote:
Simply not enough info provided to make a determination. How many carbs per day are you currently consuming? Yes, if you are addicted to carbs and your body needs them to function then training fasted probably won’t work for you.

What are you taking for Biotest supps, if any? A lot of their products could work well in your case.

I personally eat later than 6:30 but that is because I don’t train until about 5:30, so my last mean is at about 7:30 at night.

But for the most part, fasted cardio helps you burn fat if you are trying to lean out. Consuming carbs before you workout probably isn’t the best idea unless your body physically can’t handle a workout without them. [/quote]

Good question. Here are the details:

Pre-workout: 30g of whey protein, 25g of maltodextrin for carbs, along with BCAAs
Post workout: 30g of whey, 30g of casein, 100g of maltodextrin
3 additional meals that average 60g of protein, 50g of complex carbs, 35g of fat
Stop eating at 6:30
Total approximate calories = 3,100,
240g protein, 275g carbs, 105g fat

Again, key questions are whether I should have the 25g of carbs pre-lifting and cardio (30 min) and whether I should continue not having the pre-bedtime protein. Goal is to lean out. [/quote]
Cut your calories to 2,600. This ALONE will guarantee weight loss.
Stop eating at 6.30 is retarded.
Pre-bedtime? NOT IMPORTANT. What is important is meeting you macro targets.
Eating half an hour before your workout, you body will not digest this to be used during the workout. IMO a good 5 hours is needed.


#9

[quote]redgladiator wrote:

[quote]ghost87 wrote:

[quote]bdiddy5522 wrote:
Simply not enough info provided to make a determination. How many carbs per day are you currently consuming? Yes, if you are addicted to carbs and your body needs them to function then training fasted probably won’t work for you.

What are you taking for Biotest supps, if any? A lot of their products could work well in your case.

I personally eat later than 6:30 but that is because I don’t train until about 5:30, so my last mean is at about 7:30 at night.

But for the most part, fasted cardio helps you burn fat if you are trying to lean out. Consuming carbs before you workout probably isn’t the best idea unless your body physically can’t handle a workout without them. [/quote]

Good question. Here are the details:

Pre-workout: 30g of whey protein, 25g of maltodextrin for carbs, along with BCAAs
Post workout: 30g of whey, 30g of casein, 100g of maltodextrin
3 additional meals that average 60g of protein, 50g of complex carbs, 35g of fat
Stop eating at 6:30
Total approximate calories = 3,100,
240g protein, 275g carbs, 105g fat

Again, key questions are whether I should have the 25g of carbs pre-lifting and cardio (30 min) and whether I should continue not having the pre-bedtime protein. Goal is to lean out. [/quote]
Cut your calories to 2,600. This ALONE will guarantee weight loss.
Stop eating at 6.30 is retarded.
Pre-bedtime? NOT IMPORTANT. What is important is meeting you macro targets.
Eating half an hour before your workout, you body will not digest this to be used during the workout. IMO a good 5 hours is needed. [/quote]

One thing I forgot to mention is that I will be cutting 200 calories every 2 weeks. (ex.3100, 2900, 2800, etc)


#10

[quote]ghost87 wrote:
Im trying to lean out and have good success in the past. My trainer recommend a new twist on my diet. I’d Like your thoughts. He has recommended:

-last meal of the day should be no later than 6:30 (dinner). No food after this time since my energy output is so low that time of night. He thinks those calories would be better utilized during the day
[/quote]

My thoughts? Your trainer is an idiot. If you must follow someone’s advice, get a more informed trainer. I eat right up until I pass out and I maintain a hell of a lot of muscle mass when I diet. Guess I must be doing it wrong.

S


#11

I have been training fasted in the morning for a while now and have had better success with it. In the past five years I’ve tried several approaches (including a similar one to yours - going to bed hungry sucks!). I have found it best to follow a CBL/IF/Samurai Diet type of approach. I under eat all day, and I get the bulk of my calories/carbs at dinner. I won’t eat carbs all day, unless I have an early workout, in which case I’ll include 40-50 g of starchy carbs with the meal that follows the workout.

Like I said, I’ve tried several diets and dietary approaches. I’ve had the best success with what I described above. The Samurai Diet, by Nate Miyaki, was the book that helped me get to the leanest I’ve ever been.

Oh yea, and I used to weigh close to 200 lbs, no muscle, and I fight at 135 lbs now.


#12

I follow a Modified Warrior Diet by Mike Keck. Basically if I’m at 2800kcal for fat loss I’ll have 800 calories both peri-workout and throughout the day and then I eat a 2000kcal feast right before bed. My peri-workout is wake up, take some caffeine and BCAA’s, then drink hydrosolate during my training. I’ve been dropping a lot of fat while keeping muscle mass and strength. I would look at eating less carbs and using a better carb source for peri-workout like waxy maize, potato starch, or oat starch.


#13

[quote]ghost87 wrote:

[quote]redgladiator wrote:

[quote]ghost87 wrote:

[quote]bdiddy5522 wrote:
Simply not enough info provided to make a determination. How many carbs per day are you currently consuming? Yes, if you are addicted to carbs and your body needs them to function then training fasted probably won’t work for you.

What are you taking for Biotest supps, if any? A lot of their products could work well in your case.

I personally eat later than 6:30 but that is because I don’t train until about 5:30, so my last mean is at about 7:30 at night.

But for the most part, fasted cardio helps you burn fat if you are trying to lean out. Consuming carbs before you workout probably isn’t the best idea unless your body physically can’t handle a workout without them. [/quote]

Good question. Here are the details:

Pre-workout: 30g of whey protein, 25g of maltodextrin for carbs, along with BCAAs
Post workout: 30g of whey, 30g of casein, 100g of maltodextrin
3 additional meals that average 60g of protein, 50g of complex carbs, 35g of fat
Stop eating at 6:30
Total approximate calories = 3,100,
240g protein, 275g carbs, 105g fat

Again, key questions are whether I should have the 25g of carbs pre-lifting and cardio (30 min) and whether I should continue not having the pre-bedtime protein. Goal is to lean out. [/quote]
Cut your calories to 2,600. This ALONE will guarantee weight loss.
Stop eating at 6.30 is retarded.
Pre-bedtime? NOT IMPORTANT. What is important is meeting you macro targets.
Eating half an hour before your workout, you body will not digest this to be used during the workout. IMO a good 5 hours is needed. [/quote]

One thing I forgot to mention is that I will be cutting 200 calories every 2 weeks. (ex.3100, 2900, 2800, etc)[/quote]

this many calories may not be necessary.

when my weightloss stalls my guy will usually only drop me about 50-70 cals which usually yields 1-3lbs of loss in a week depending if i’m keeping up with my cardio or not. i know it blows my mind i thought that i would have to drop 100-200 a week, but such a drastic change hasn’t been necessary.

I’ve been dieting with him since feb i started at 3300ish calories. now 5 months later im still eating like 2980 cals a day for my most recent drop this week.


#14

[quote]paulieserafini wrote:

[quote]ghost87 wrote:

[quote]redgladiator wrote:

[quote]ghost87 wrote:

[quote]bdiddy5522 wrote:
Simply not enough info provided to make a determination. How many carbs per day are you currently consuming? Yes, if you are addicted to carbs and your body needs them to function then training fasted probably won’t work for you.

What are you taking for Biotest supps, if any? A lot of their products could work well in your case.

I personally eat later than 6:30 but that is because I don’t train until about 5:30, so my last mean is at about 7:30 at night.

But for the most part, fasted cardio helps you burn fat if you are trying to lean out. Consuming carbs before you workout probably isn’t the best idea unless your body physically can’t handle a workout without them. [/quote]

Good question. Here are the details:

Pre-workout: 30g of whey protein, 25g of maltodextrin for carbs, along with BCAAs
Post workout: 30g of whey, 30g of casein, 100g of maltodextrin
3 additional meals that average 60g of protein, 50g of complex carbs, 35g of fat
Stop eating at 6:30
Total approximate calories = 3,100,
240g protein, 275g carbs, 105g fat

Again, key questions are whether I should have the 25g of carbs pre-lifting and cardio (30 min) and whether I should continue not having the pre-bedtime protein. Goal is to lean out. [/quote]
Cut your calories to 2,600. This ALONE will guarantee weight loss.
Stop eating at 6.30 is retarded.
Pre-bedtime? NOT IMPORTANT. What is important is meeting you macro targets.
Eating half an hour before your workout, you body will not digest this to be used during the workout. IMO a good 5 hours is needed. [/quote]

One thing I forgot to mention is that I will be cutting 200 calories every 2 weeks. (ex.3100, 2900, 2800, etc)[/quote]

this many calories may not be necessary.

when my weightloss stalls my guy will usually only drop me about 50-70 cals which usually yields 1-3lbs of loss in a week depending if i’m keeping up with my cardio or not. i know it blows my mind i thought that i would have to drop 100-200 a week, but such a drastic change hasn’t been necessary.

I’ve been dieting with him since feb i started at 3300ish calories. now 5 months later im still eating like 2980 cals a day for my most recent drop this week.[/quote]

A pound of fat is around 3500 calories requiring a caloric deficit of 500 a day through diet and/or cardio to lose at a rate of 1lb/week. 3lbs is excessive imo and may be water weight. If I’m losing more than a pound per week I’d probably up my carbs somewhere.


#15

[quote]redgladiator wrote:

[quote]paulieserafini wrote:

[quote]ghost87 wrote:

[quote]redgladiator wrote:

[quote]ghost87 wrote:

[quote]bdiddy5522 wrote:
Simply not enough info provided to make a determination. How many carbs per day are you currently consuming? Yes, if you are addicted to carbs and your body needs them to function then training fasted probably won’t work for you.

What are you taking for Biotest supps, if any? A lot of their products could work well in your case.

I personally eat later than 6:30 but that is because I don’t train until about 5:30, so my last mean is at about 7:30 at night.

But for the most part, fasted cardio helps you burn fat if you are trying to lean out. Consuming carbs before you workout probably isn’t the best idea unless your body physically can’t handle a workout without them. [/quote]

Good question. Here are the details:

Pre-workout: 30g of whey protein, 25g of maltodextrin for carbs, along with BCAAs
Post workout: 30g of whey, 30g of casein, 100g of maltodextrin
3 additional meals that average 60g of protein, 50g of complex carbs, 35g of fat
Stop eating at 6:30
Total approximate calories = 3,100,
240g protein, 275g carbs, 105g fat

Again, key questions are whether I should have the 25g of carbs pre-lifting and cardio (30 min) and whether I should continue not having the pre-bedtime protein. Goal is to lean out. [/quote]
Cut your calories to 2,600. This ALONE will guarantee weight loss.
Stop eating at 6.30 is retarded.
Pre-bedtime? NOT IMPORTANT. What is important is meeting you macro targets.
Eating half an hour before your workout, you body will not digest this to be used during the workout. IMO a good 5 hours is needed. [/quote]

One thing I forgot to mention is that I will be cutting 200 calories every 2 weeks. (ex.3100, 2900, 2800, etc)[/quote]

this many calories may not be necessary.

when my weightloss stalls my guy will usually only drop me about 50-70 cals which usually yields 1-3lbs of loss in a week depending if i’m keeping up with my cardio or not. i know it blows my mind i thought that i would have to drop 100-200 a week, but such a drastic change hasn’t been necessary.

I’ve been dieting with him since feb i started at 3300ish calories. now 5 months later im still eating like 2980 cals a day for my most recent drop this week.[/quote]

A pound of fat is around 3500 calories requiring a caloric deficit of 500 a day through diet and/or cardio to lose at a rate of 1lb/week. 3lbs is excessive imo and may be water weight. If I’m losing more than a pound per week I’d probably up my carbs somewhere.[/quote]

dunno what to tell you man, i mean the 3lb loss only happened once and it was about 4 days into a 7 day deload. I’m assuming i was very overreached and needed the time off.

but yeah like i said i started with this guy named RJ Perkins in feburary at roughly 3300-3400 calories on most days and now im eating 2970ish on most days and ive gone from 246-232 with very minor adjustments over the past 5ish months. What is that like about 14lbs with a total of a 500 calorie distributed in small increments over 5 months.

i don’t really remember how big my waist was back then, somewhere around 40-43 (39.5ish sucking in) now im just under 38 not sucking in (just under 36 sucking in)