T Nation

Large Professor Article on JB's site


Anyone read this?

I saw he recommends 3 PF meals to start the day followed by 3 PC ...

I thought PC was best first thing in the morning and after workout? And PF before bed?



I think he's assuming that you are going to workout in the evening, after work, and from what I've read, he says that P+C is best eaten immediately after workouts to 6 hours post workout.

So the first P+C is your during and immediately post workout 'meal,' then 2 hours later another P+C, then 2 hours after that another P+C.

At least that's what I think.


I think this is getting a little ridiculous.

At this pace, 2 years from now, they'll start telling us to do what we were doing 10 years ago, just to keep some controversy going on and create a name.

I agree with Berardi's guidelines, but you can bet I'll always have a P+C meal for breakfast, 2 P+C meals post workout, and always make sure the last meal of the day has exclusively P+F.


well said diesel, although you need to learn to have more patience....jeez....;o)

JB's recommendations (3 P+F meals in the morning, followed by 3 P+C meals later in the day) are geared towards those who train in the afternoons. Obviously, the time of day you train throws a "monkey wrench" into the grand scheme of things. If I am correct, he also lays out a plan for someone who trains in the mornings, so you might want to search around.

In any case, diesel was right on the mark...P+C for breakfast along with 2 P+C meals following training will bode well for most people. Just gotta experiment and see what works best for you my man!


Tony G, TE for the Chiefs....

Thanks bro. I've been doing the alternating plan .. PC for breakfast, then PF, then PC lunch, then PF before workout, workout at 430 w/ surge, then big PC, then PF before bed.

What would be the optimal way to structure mine? Should I go PC PF PF PF PC PC before bed?

I agree with diesel ... this is gettin a lil outta hand


It depends on your goals. If your trying to get lean, you would want more of your P+C earlier in the day.

The 3 P+F,then 3 P+C is geared towards an afternoon\ evening training sessions and mass gaining.

Depending on your goals, you would structure your meals according.

What are your goals?


I would go P+C for breakfast (oatmeal, apple or orange, veggies, egg whites, chicken breast)...want to make this a rather large meal as you have gone through an overnight fast and you need to replenish those glycogen stores.

2-3 P+F meals leading up to training.

During and Post-Workout drink (P+C obviously)

2 P+C whole food meals after training. Make your first P+C meal post training the largest of the day with a 2:1 carbohydrate:protein ratio. I usually eat this meal anywheres from 30-45 minutes after training.

Wait another 90-120 minutes and eat another P+C meal.

And P+F before bed. What I have found that works well for me is 1 cup of cottage cheese with 1 scoop of LC Grow with 1 tbsp of natural peanut butter and I will toss is a few fish oil caps as well.

anyways, that is what I would do in your situation. Hope that helps a little


Oh yeah Ryan brought up a great point. What are your goals. I have "bulking", but I am also trying to minimize fat gain so I have switched the majority of my workouts to the mornings (9-10 AM) so that I can get the bulk of my carbs during the morning hours. I work at a gym, so I have the luxury of training when I want...haha (sticking tongue out to everyone).


im with Diesel...i eat p+c for breakfast,then many p+fs workout at 4:30 then have 3 p+cs and one more p+f before bed....


I'm very familiar with the structuring and all that, but even if the 3 PF then 3 PC was geared towards an afternoon/evening bulking individual, it makes no sense. Your body wants carbs to grow in the morning.

Look at t-dawg 2.0 ... even it places carbs in the morning.

As for me, looking to grow. Westside begins on Oct 13th.


Am I the only one who does 4 P+C and 2 P+F Meals? I do P+F 2 hours before working out and P+F before going to bed. Otherwise, the other 4 are P+C. My insulin sensitivity is really good though, so maybe thats why I can get away with this and not become el gordo.


Well the 2.0 dawg is a cutting program.

But the basis is, that you try to get P+F before training so you increase fat oxidation during your workout. Then you have your carbs to replenish glycogen.


Does anybody else find this a bit ridiculous? No offense to any of you, but these tiny, tiny details.. I mean, honestly, has anybody noticed any drastic effect?

I know this is t-mag and Berardi's word is pretty much taken as the bible.. but this is a bit ridiculous, and I'd bet the stress that people place on themselves to get everything exactly 100% right is more detrimental to them (stress, cortisol elevating, etc) than having some P+C right before working out.

Me? I workout at 10AM. I have a large breakfast with oatmeal. There's no way I could workout in the morning without some type of carb before hand.


I emailed JB about this .. here's what he had to say:

There are lots of strategies you can employ. This is one that Austin used with great success. If you read the article you can see that he had phenomenal progress using this strategy. I don't question results.

Besides, I see no major need for carbs first thing in the am. Absolutely no muscle glycogen depletion occurs over night (or very little anyway).


Does anyone eat a P/C meal before training? I train around 3pm and seem to do well with a p/c meal prior to training. I have 2 scoops of surge p/w then another p/c for my 2nd p/w.


Hey All...Couple of comments...

1) This nutritional advice becomes confusing if you assume there is only a single right way to do things. The same goes for training advice. When you adopt the mentality that there is no single right way to do things, you will not be confused by different theories and experimental approaches.

2) I agree with a few of the posters when they emplore some of you to relax a bit. There is no need for confusion, stress, and sleepless nights over seemingly contradictory info. The balance of the universe is not upset even if contradictory information is presented.

3) Assuming a baseline diet that utilizes the meal combinations I've written about in Massive Eating AND good food selections may be enough for the average weight lifter. All the timing issues (short of post workout supplements) may not be as important until we're talking about a pro athlete training to depletion 1 - 2x per day.

4) Remember, that article (Austin's) was a summary of what worked for him. Based on his individual needs, preferences, daily schedule, training schedule, and lifting program, we devised that plan.

5) Rather than focus on the minutae of what Austin said, focus on the overall picture. In that article there are some great suggestions for making improvements! Don't lose sight of the forest for the trees.

6) Part 2 will run in the next few weeks...it's pretty good too!


Austin - "growin like a tree in 2003" ?


I agree with John Berardi. It's high time you people start calming down and backtracking a bit, k?

Christ people. Don't die of a heart attack or anything.