T Nation

Lagging Arms and Shoulders


#1

Hey guys, I am new to the forum and wanted to introduce myself, also wanted to talk about my lagging body parts and my %BF before starting a Tren/Prop cycle.
I am 20 years old, compited once when i was 18, i dont have great experience with roids but i have used Winstrol only for cutting (for the contest, i know it was a mistake) and in July 2016 started a Deca/Sust cycle for 8 weeks, it wasnt good, i think it was the diet and %BF.

Ok. Im worry about my arms and shoulders, been training since i was 18 with diet, not the best but what you gonna do…, im gonna post pics from my body (this are from May 2016) my arms sucks, the muscle shape is awful, and when i put a t-shirt i look like a skinny guy that doesnt even lift.

On Septembre 2015 i had a surgery where i lost all my gains, i started training again mid-November 2015.
Maybe later i could post recent pics.
Now i am between 15-20% bf and i want to start a Tren/Prop cycle, and see if i could lose fat and gain some muscle, if it is possible. What do you think?

Thanks, and sorry for my english.


#2

You definitely don’t need drugs to lose body fat and keep muscle or even gain muscle at the same time. That comes down to dedication and nutrition. Unless I completely missed the question…
@The_Mighty_Stu has coached people to improve body parts while on a cut and @robstein made great improvements while on a cut. No drugs were needed…all came down to diet, dedication, and nutrient timing.


#3

Stop the drugs! Put in 5 years of consistent work and re-evaluate. Right now you should cut. Follow the The contest prep threads advice or tnation articles and get down to 10% bf. once there slowly work on strength and size. Which means a proper diet with john meadows principles. Research what he has wrote


#4

People mistakenly think that all progress must halt during a prep/cut, which if you want to go with the overgeneralization of “not enough cals” as a justifier, I get. In the big picture though, training damn hard (and smart) will cause your body to direct nutrients and recovery units to addressing what you’re subjecting it to. I don’t post up pics of many of my clients b/c it’s their decision if they want to advertise that they had help from me, but we all saw how we had Brad make serious gains during his prep, and we’re all watching while Rob brings up his pipes as well (I revised his arm training the other day, and I think it’s safe to say that he was very pleased with my suggestions).

S


#5

Dear Stu

May I please trouble you for a rough outline in regards to your current recommendations for training arms?

I’m looking to put on some mass in this area in particular (I know, dem gunz really?)

Cheers

Moog


#6

yeah x3 get off the gear. At your age can make enormous progress totally naturally just using the info on this site.

For a start Look up the John Meadows/Mountain Dog arms and shoulder training articles


#7

My approach to most training is simple, I recognize the benefit of compound work BUT I also realize that isolation work done on different ranges of motion and rep ranges have a big place on bodybuilding (hypertrophy) training.

A breakdown of my rationale for bicep work:

I always loved starting with incline curls, where I could rely on the myostatic reflex (more contractile fibers recruited after a stretch), and a lower rep range (6-8). I might sometimes do 5-6 sets of just this, always conscious to not deload the muscle (none of that forearm perpendicular to the ground/resting the DBs on your bones BS).

After that I might do non/support concentration curls or even machine preachers to focus on that peak contraction area in a manner that doesn’t Deload the resistance at the top point. This was done in a more medium rep range, maybe 8-12.

Always finishing with a full range (non-locking out:
/resting) BB curl for a higher rep range, 10-15, but a serious exposure concentric and a seriously painful (grit those teeth!) eccentric. Look up compensatory acceleration training (CAT by Fred Hatfield) to understand my thinking for most performance.

S


#8

Hhhmmmm that arm workout looks mighty familiar to what I am doing


#9

What’s your opinion on supersetting arms? Do you prefer to just do straight sets of bis and tris, superset antagonists(ex. curls with skull crushers), or super set like exercises(ex. BB curls with concentration curls)? I just started back into a split routine after years of full body and push-pull type training and am looking to bring up my arms after doing hardly any direct iso work to them in forever. Currently just doing tris after shoulders and bis after chest, straight sets


#10

Thanks guys for the answes, im young and sometimes i suffer vigorexia, as everybody, but im not using any drugs yet, i will drop my %BF and then start adding some lean mass. I will follow the articles in this web, thank you.

By the way, i´m a mix between meso and endomorph, i would like to know what to do with carbs?
Recently i was following Carb Back-Loading, just carbs at night, and post-workout because i train at midday, i cant train in the afternoon. So my question is, based in your experience, what is best for our biotype? Carbs Post-work only?


#11

Thanks Stu

I very much appreciate the time you have taken to respond - good man ;0)

Moog


#12

Great info thanks, have you ever done or do you have an opinion on having your training partner add extra resistance on the eccentric? Obviously you can lower much more than you can lift. I’ve been loading the bar for curls with my normal 12 rep weight, curling to the top and squeezing for a couple of seconds, then my training partner smoothly pushes the weight back down while I maintain around a 4 second negative.

It seems to me that it may be pretty effective, long tut, heavier eccentric. my arms feel incredible after a few sets!


#13

Saw amazing gains with this methodology… Work them twice a week, once for strength and power (i.e. 1-5 rep range) and once for hypertrophy (10-12 rep range accompanied by high intensity techniques such as blood flow restriction training, dropsets and supersets)


#14

I’ve only really employed antagonistic supersets if I’m having a client push for every possible method of lactate training/fat loss (not contest prep! That’s more about muscle retention!), or if we’re depleting glycogen before a big carb load.

Yes, I’ve read many reports of increasing the blood flow into the area by such a method, and I suppose if you’re going for the benefits of blood volume, and enjoy the feeling, there could be a case made for it. It’s just not my preferred approach. I’m NOT saying that it doesn’t work in some cases for some people, just my usual feeling of not needing to make everything overcomplicated or gimmicky.

S


#15

I’ve certainly tried this approach in the past, and in terms of intensity, it can certain up it quite a bit. However, if you’re not already choosing a weight that you have to fight for a 4 second negative on, IMO you need to select a heavier weight :slight_smile:

Remember, there are more variables to hypertrophy training than just intensity. If you’re solely focused on intensity, making those few reps you’re ecking out hurt like hell, you’re sweating, and sputtering, and shaking, but your actual volume can suffer. I would personally use this on the last set or two or an exercise, BUT, also ensure I was getting some straight sets in previously to ensure enough volume. I also usually train solo, so drop sets were always more of a favorite of mine on that last set if I felt I deserved a bit more punishment.

I actually got into the more intensity based training years ago, and while it was certainly fun (despite the aches and pains that come along with it), I eventually realized that volume is a very essential component for bodybuilding geared approaches. (ie. No one ever seems to stay with extremely low volume/high intensity/heavy duty/etc for very long IMO)

S


#16

Nice one, my current approach has been like this

2x10 curls
2x10 curls with added resistance

Then move on to a tri set of.
spider curls
Drag curls
hammer curls

8 reps each exercise for 3 sets with no rest between exercises.


#17

Ok. Thanks for the advice. Im reading Meadows articles for shoulders and arms.
But i have a doubt, now im training 4 days/week.
I need to improve my shoulders and arms, so i should follow all the programs at once or first one for shoulder and the for bicep and the for tri ( for example)??

In conclusion, can i apply the mountain dog training style at once? to my whole routine?
That is my doubt, thanks