T Nation

Lactating like a B****


#1

Ok, I just finished a cycle of Test E at 500mg a week with 5 weeks of winstrol and was about to run my last week of winstrol without Test and then start my PCT of 40/40/30/20 of Nolva. Here is the rookie mistake. No AI. I have never had problems with Test before, even when running 750mg a wk. But, i know, this is no excuse. My fuck up and apparently I'm paying for it.

They are kind of puffy but I thought it was my diet since I am bulking but then I noticed that they were slightly itchy. Not much, but slightly. So i gave them a hard pinch test to look for bumps and test sensitivity. That test came up negative, but I did secrete a milky discharge. Not much, but enough to scare me.

My immediate response was to take my first dose of 40mg of Nolva which I did last night. But after doing some reading it seems like the culprit is prolactin and the solution is cabergoline. Am I correct? After sifting through posts till 2am about Nolva and Letro and Adex and Caber my questions are this:

***How much Caber and for now long?
***Should I still run my Nolva since I am in the PCT phase of my cycle?


#2

High Estrogen levels will increase Procactin.

An AI is all you need - cessation of the Test and Tamoxifen will also work.

Use an AI in all future cycles... Gyno isnt the only reason for this, as you now know.


#3

Ok, so your saying I should not worry about the caber, stop my PCT and run an AI, correct? So would this mean my PCT would only consist of the AI and then that would be the end of my cycle? Or am I to assume I will need to run the Nolva after the AI gets rid of the current problem in or order to fix the problem only taking the AI will give me, which is a reduction in my Test levels? Especially since I'll no longer be running the Test.

Sorry, just trying to clarify here. Because I have noticed that the advice on this subject goes only as far as solving the first issue.


#4

Ok, so your saying I should not worry about the caber, stop my PCT and run an AI, correct? So would this mean my PCT would only consist of the AI and then that would be the end of my cycle? Or am I to assume I will need to run the Nolva after the AI gets rid of the current problem in or order to fix the problem only taking the AI will give me, which is a reduction in my Test levels? Especially since I'll no longer be running the Test.

Sorry, just trying to clarify here. Because I have noticed that the advice on this subject goes only as far as solving the first issue.


#5

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#6

No, i am saying that if you were to continue with the cycle, then an AI should be added - but ceasing the Test injections and using Tamoxifen will acieve the same goal (decreasing circulating Estrogen and also 'blocking' the receptor at the breast - to stop the existing estrogen from acting on the gland0.

As you are in PCT you should find that the issue stops 'by itself' so to speak - although by ceasing the injections and starting SERM usage, you are taking action enough.

JMO - there may be a better way :slightly_smiling:


#7

Thanks BBB.. this makes sense now you mention it.
It would explain exactly why - after a Nandrolone cycle - it is so difficult to bring libido up, even if muscular gains are being made (as has been my experience frequently).

I always suspected that the release of the decanoate ester alone cant be enough - while ~18 months is the metabolite detection time, it doesnt take 3 months to get levels of the drug to insignificant levels (in terms of increased prolactin or HPTA impact) - and i have heard of a number of people taking this long to recover (at least) libido from nandrolone.

:wink:


#8

Ok. So Should I run an AI and the caber at the same time? Lets say a month or so? I figure 4 weeks is enough to relinquish the effects of the prolactin? And then run the 40/40/30/20 PCT? Or would this no longer be needed? I know that running an AI by itself would lower my Test levels and that since I am coming off the Test E they are going to diminish anyways. I know that running the nolva will restore my Test levels but will counteract with the AI making it useless.

This is confusing as hell.

But I am thinking something like this:

Week 1-2: 1mg of adex ed
Week 3-4: .5mg of adex ed

then the normal 40/40/30/20 PCT with nolva

I do not know how much caber to use. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.


#9

Oh ok. Then disregard my last post lol But I like Bushy's idea of taking Caber, just in case. Does anybody know the amount that should be taken and for how long?

Thanks a ton, y'all. I am never displeased when I come to this site looking for informative and knowledgeable members to give sound advice on a subject seemingly full of facts and articles based solely on past experience and only some scientific study.


#10

OK.. lets sort this out. I too agree (in light of BBB's response) that it cant hurt to add Caber (it is dosed at 0.5mg 2x/wk).
An AI will NOT lower test levels, it will actually serve to increase them, and the same way a SERM (Tamoxifen) helps to recover the HPTA, an AI will too.
SERM's dont make AI's 'useless' - but they are estrogens.

There is no need to run 4 weeks of AI and caber THEN PCT.

There are a few options;

1) Run your SERM PCT with Caber alongside it for the next 4 weeks.. then off totally.
2) Use an AI as your PCT drug, and add Caber (adex would be dosed accordingly)
3) Use an AI for 1-2 weeks between the last shot and PCT, THEN run a SERM PCT - with caber throughout the AI and SERM usage.
4) Use an AI for 1-2 weeks between the last shot and PCT, THEN run PCT with the AI - with caber throughout.

The choice depends on where you are in the cycle. If you have just done the last inject of a long acting test (enanth/cyp/sust) then you will need to wait for 2-3 weeks before being able to get the most from PCT.
Either way Caber would be commenced immediately.
I personally would run a SERM PCT with Caber used from today till possibly 1-2weeks post PCT.

Do you even have any AI or Caber? I wouldn't have expected you would as you would have avoided this issue in the beginning.

If you are lanning to order some online, you will likely need to wait a week - and in that case, the best you could do would be to discontinue injections, use 20mg Nolvadex for 2 weeks or so (depending on ester) and then commencing your PCT with the SERM - adding the Caber as it arrives.

JMO


#11

I have access to adex not caber. The only caber I know of to get is a research chem and it is in liquid form. Both, being liquid and research, of which I have read from others to be bad in some form or fashion? The last injection was made this past Fri of Test E. So I guess I will start the adex asap. As for the Caber I guess I am going to have to settle for the research chem.


#12

Why did you choose not to use adex during the cycle?

Regardless, you should know that suspended Caber is likely to degrade over time - and is why it often is not recommended. I have heard of it being suspended in non-aqueous solutions making the drug last longer, but do not know if this is the actual reality..


#13

Because I had never had problems running test solo before. And apparently am retarded. There is no good reason. Before I had learned about it I did not use it. Then when I had I felt I did not need it because I had not had any problems. Unfortunately this had to happen for me to learn the error of my ways. This is what is written from the research chem website about the Caber I can obtain:

The chemical name for cabergoline is 1-[(6-allylergolin-8Ã?-yl)-carbonyl]-1-[3-(dimethylamino)propyl]-3-ethylurea. Its empirical formula is C26H37N5O2, and its molecular weight is 451.62.

Cabergoline is a white powder soluble in ethyl alcohol, chloroform, and N, N-dimethylformamide (DMF); slightly soluble in 0.1N hydrochloric acid; very slightly soluble in n-hexane; and insoluble in water.

And it is an aqueous solution. So, does this mean it wont work or what?


#14

Because I had never had problems running test solo before. And apparently am retarded. There is no good reason. Before I had learned about it I did not use it. Then when I had I felt I did not need it because I had not had any problems. Unfortunately this had to happen for me to learn the error of my ways. This is what is written from the research chem website about the Caber I can obtain:

The chemical name for cabergoline is 1-[(6-allylergolin-8Ã?-yl)-carbonyl]-1-[3-(dimethylamino)propyl]-3-ethylurea. Its empirical formula is C26H37N5O2, and its molecular weight is 451.62.

Cabergoline is a white powder soluble in ethyl alcohol, chloroform, and N, N-dimethylformamide (DMF); slightly soluble in 0.1N hydrochloric acid; very slightly soluble in n-hexane; and insoluble in water.

And it is an aqueous solution. So, does this mean it wont work or what?


#15

If that is the only way you can obtain cabergoline I would just go with it. I have read mixed reviews debating if the liquid cabergoline would work or not. Honestly I bet it is fine and if I was in your situation I would order it no doubt.

If you choose to order the pills it will most likely be from overseas and who knows when you will get it. Just get the damn liquid.


#16

My sentiments exactly. :slight_smile:


#17

Dude, If your lactating, sell that shit homie.


#18

a couple of my friends all took this dbol from some lab and they were all lactating, it was hilarious and weird as fuck.


#19

Great advice - ya fucking moron.

To conclude (not you moron, the OP) - you run an AI at a decent dose for the next two weeks - say approximately 0.5-1mg for a week then 0.25 to 0.5 for a week.. or something in the fashion of 1mg,1mg,1mg,0.75mg,0.75mg,0.75mg,0.5mg,0.5mg,0.5mg,0.5mg,0.25mg,0.25mg,0.25mg,0.25mg. Then run 40mg/day of tamoxifen for 2 weeks, followed by 20mg for 2 weeks..

Add the caber if and when you get it - use a higher dose than is recommended - probably around 1mg 2x/wk-E3D, instead of 0.5mg 2x/wk - due to its efficiacy degrading over time in water based solutions.

I dont think you have really opened up a can of worms here, it could be worse - however you have learnt your lesson, and hopefully taught many lurkers here the same thing without them having to go through it!

:wink:


#20

http://www.unassistedchildbirth.com/miscarticles/milkmen.html

Oh so relevant.