Lacking Sartorius Development

CT,

I know you practiced that pose, holding up your laptop with your locker room thread and all the inane, idiotic questions, while winding up and ready to smash the screen in with your other hand :slight_smile:

[quote]L-Dee wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
L-Dee wrote:
Hmmm,

I don’t want to hijack the thread, but I have a small biomechanical question;
Mike Robertson and Eric Cressey have, as I recall, talked about sartorius tightness contributing to some biomechanical problems, namely valgus (knock knees).

Since sumo-stance deadlifting apparently contributes to developing the sartorius, would it be safe to say that if an athlete is working on reducing valgus, he or she should more or less stay away from sumo deadlifting?

I think people are suggesting sumo stance exercises to work the adductors not the sartorius.

BBB

Well I kind of deducted that the sartorius would be developed by doing sumo stance deadlifting.
And tight adductor muscles contribute to valgus as well.
[/quote]

Sartorius is a hip abductor.

I figured I’d clear that up. Good question regarding sartorius and knee valgus. I’ll have to look into that :open_mouth:


Try drop lunges

You know, every time someone posts about a problem with leg development, it turns out they are doing squats as their primary lower body exercise. Anyone else notice this?

I wish people would learn to use the leg press before thinking they have a “problem”.

This is bodybuilding.

Btw I saw that he works out in his garage. This is not the first thread of its kind.

I seem to remember my anatomy prof (PhD and also a DPT) saying a total sartorius tear wasn’t that problematic. Take that with a grain of salt though as my memory is a little shaky.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
PaleriderXXI wrote:
Regarding the work out described in the “All be damned, it works” article. Can you give some examples for the bi/ tri strength move, bi/ tri functional hypertrophy, and bi/ tri hypertrophy.

wow total hijack of the thread

Indeed. I can’t remember when I last saw such a blatant hijack.

BBB[/quote]

Man did you see the Packers crush the Bears or the Lesnar fight?

I haven’t read the thread so I can only offer one exercise that has worked for me. I always get a great burn in my inner thigh from doing some heavy lunges. I find that barbell lunges work me them best because of the increased focus on keeping balance.

Thanks for everyone’s contributions. I will give these ideas a try. While waiting for the ideas to come through I remembered CT writting an article on different hamstring exercises, one of them where he was lying on his back and sliding a 45 pound plate toward and away from himself like a leg curl. I tried the same idea by sitting on the ground, legs out in front of me, feet each on a 25 pound plate and spreading and then closing my legs. Seemed to work ok and I was hitting both inside and outside. Might use this one as well.

Thanks.

Wide Squats and Sumo Deadlifts will help a good bit.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Flow wrote:
L-Dee wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
L-Dee wrote:
Hmmm,

I don’t want to hijack the thread, but I have a small biomechanical question;
Mike Robertson and Eric Cressey have, as I recall, talked about sartorius tightness contributing to some biomechanical problems, namely valgus (knock knees).

Since sumo-stance deadlifting apparently contributes to developing the sartorius, would it be safe to say that if an athlete is working on reducing valgus, he or she should more or less stay away from sumo deadlifting?

I think people are suggesting sumo stance exercises to work the adductors not the sartorius.

BBB

Well I kind of deducted that the sartorius would be developed by doing sumo stance deadlifting.
And tight adductor muscles contribute to valgus as well.

Sartorius is a hip abductor.

I figured I’d clear that up. Good question regarding sartorius and knee valgus. I’ll have to look into that :open_mouth:

Can you please provide a ref for your assertion that the sartorius is a hip abductor.

Also, I don’t see how the sartoruis could contribute to valgus stress. Varus yes, but not valgus, since it crosses the medial aspect of the knee joint.

BBB[/quote]

Manual of Structural Kinesiology; 16th Edition; R.T. Floyd; (C) 2007, New York, NY 10020

P.238

"Sartorius muscle

Action
Flexion of the hip
Flexion of the knee
External rotation of the thigh as it flexes the hip and knee
Abduction of the hip
Anterior Pelvic Rotation"

When it shortens, it pulls from its origin, the laterally located anterior superior iliac spine, on its insertion, the medially located anteromedial tibia just below the condyle. Because it is pulling from a lateral location on a medial location, it follows that hip abduction would result.

I had never seen anything about it contributing to valgus, and I’m no kinesiologist. I like researching this stuff though, so if I find anything I’ll post about it.

edit:

That’s actually a poor explanation of why it produces hip abduction. It’s more because it runs along the medial condyle of the femur into its insestion on the medial tibia. That gives it better leverage for acting as a two-joint muscle.

That has always been my understanding as well.

[quote]Nominal Prospect wrote:
You know, every time someone posts about a problem with leg development, it turns out they are doing squats as their primary lower body exercise. Anyone else notice this?

I wish people would learn to use the leg press before thinking they have a “problem”.

This is bodybuilding.

Btw I saw that he works out in his garage. This is not the first thread of its kind.[/quote]

and did you notice that the vast majority of people do squats anyways? what’s your point

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Flow wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
Flow wrote:
L-Dee wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
L-Dee wrote:
Hmmm,

I don’t want to hijack the thread, but I have a small biomechanical question;
Mike Robertson and Eric Cressey have, as I recall, talked about sartorius tightness contributing to some biomechanical problems, namely valgus (knock knees).

Since sumo-stance deadlifting apparently contributes to developing the sartorius, would it be safe to say that if an athlete is working on reducing valgus, he or she should more or less stay away from sumo deadlifting?

I think people are suggesting sumo stance exercises to work the adductors not the sartorius.

BBB

Well I kind of deducted that the sartorius would be developed by doing sumo stance deadlifting.
And tight adductor muscles contribute to valgus as well.

Sartorius is a hip abductor.

I figured I’d clear that up. Good question regarding sartorius and knee valgus. I’ll have to look into that :open_mouth:

Can you please provide a ref for your assertion that the sartorius is a hip abductor.

Also, I don’t see how the sartoruis could contribute to valgus stress. Varus yes, but not valgus, since it crosses the medial aspect of the knee joint.

BBB

Manual of Structural Kinesiology; 16th Edition; R.T. Floyd; (C) 2007, New York, NY 10020

P.238

"Sartorius muscle

Action
Flexion of the hip
Flexion of the knee
External rotation of the thigh as it flexes the hip and knee
Abduction of the hip
Anterior Pelvic Rotation"

When it shortens, it pulls from its origin, the laterally located anterior superior iliac spine, on its insertion, the medially located anteromedial tibia just below the condyle. Because it is pulling from a lateral location on a medial location, it follows that hip abduction would result.

I had never seen anything about it contributing to valgus, and I’m no kinesiologist. I like researching this stuff though, so if I find anything I’ll post about it.

edit:

That’s actually a poor explanation of why it produces hip abduction. It’s more because it runs along the medial condyle of the femur into its insestion on the medial tibia. That gives it better leverage for acting as a two-joint muscle.

Thanks for the ref! That sounds like a detailed text.

However, the engineer in me still struggles to accept the abduction force generated by that muscle as being anything other than trivial, due to it’s angle of attack, if indeed it works that way at all.

Buuut, I’m surely not as qualified as that author lol, so I’ll keep an open mind.

BBB[/quote]

No prob! I love that text. It has great illustrations. I’m a very visual learner, so that helps me more than anything. :slight_smile:

I agree. The sartorius is probably so weak in hip abduction that it is basically an afterthought. I think the fact that you don’t hear about ‘sartorius activation’ drills, but you do hear about glute medius activation drills says it all.

Regarding the credentials. . . Yeah, letters trump logic :stuck_out_tongue: One day I’ll have alphabet soup for credentials and I’ll be able to think for myself.

One day. . .

Take up tailoring!
:slight_smile:

[quote]Boffin wrote:
Take up tailoring!
:)[/quote]

LOL

I thought about going there. . .

You have made my day.

I heard Kevin Levrone frequented ME Quilting.

He was one of the best Bodyquilters ever, after all.

Nice posts.

My memory might be completely off so I wouldn’t count on MR or EC stating that about the sartorius and valgus. As the reference points out though that the muscle is a anterior pelvic rotator. Doesn’t this mean that it possibly contributes to anterior pelvic tilt? And where there’s anterior pelvic tilt, isn’t there a greater chance of valgus at the knee? Or am I completely off?

[quote]eharding wrote:
Hey All,

I am seriously lacking in any inner thigh development and need some tips on how to really fill this are in. I was reading the following article:

Bulk Up, Cut Up: Quads and Tri’s
by Christian Thibaudeau | Wed, Aug 09, 2006

My constraints are that I workout in my garage and only have free weights: barbells, dumbells, squat stands, etc.

Hopefully someone, maybe even Christian Thibaudeau could chime in.

Thanks![/quote]

I’m old school and am just getting back into it, but back in the day with limited gym equipment we would place a 2x4 board or 5 lb. plates under our heels and squat with lighter weight, squeezing the thighs very hard at the top of the squat (angling the toes out just a tad to emphasize the “tear drop.” After a couple of weeks you will get stronger at this once you perfect the technique. All I can say is that it works on just about every thigh movement.