T Nation

Labs are in. VT? Ksman?


#1

Well, I've been on TRT Since June. At one point I was on 200mg/week HCG 250iu/week and no AI. I thought I was doing great as I didn't grow any moobs and my libido was good. At the ten week mark, I started getting moody and lethargic. Got labs and found my T was at 1200 and my E2 at about 125. Since then, this has been my protocol:

100mg Test Cyp E5D (140mg/week)
250ius HCG E5D
6.25 Aromisin ED

Here are my labs as of today (drawn day of shot, before shot):

BUN/Creatine Ratio 20 (8-19)
Sodium, Serum 140 (135-145)
Potassium, Serum 5.3 (3.5-5.2)
AST (SGOT) 41 (0-40)
ALT (SGPT) 28 (0-55)

Testosterone , Serum 758 (348-1197)

LH <0.2 (1.7-8.6)
FSH, Serum <0.2 (1.5-12.4)

Estradiol 11.8 (7.6-42.6)

Hemoglobin 17.8 (12.5-17.0)
Hematocrit 52.4 (36.0-50.0)

BUN 21 (6-20)
Creatine, serum 1.06 (0.76-1.27)

I give blood every ten weeks and I'm due to give blood this week, so my Hemo levels will come down. I'm worried about AST and BUN.
Anything else I should be looking at? What about my E2 at 11? I'm already taking a LOW dose of Aromisin. Should I increase my Test Cyp a little? Maybe that will raise my E2 just a little and still keep me within range. Currently at 140mg/week.

BTW, I just noticed that I had some PM's from months ago. Sorry I haven't responded. I just never check/noticed until today. Replies sent.

-script


#2

If you are a weight training dude and eat a high protein diet, I wouldn't worry about the SGOT or BUN levels. SGOT can be elevated if you worked out a few days prior (muscle damage) and BUN can be elevated from high protein diets and dehyrdration. It is typical to see these slightly elevated for us. No real worries there.

Your E2 is a bit low, but if you feel good at this level it might be ok. How do your symptoms track?

You say you are on a small dose of Aromasin, but that isn't exactly the case. 25 mg is equivlanet of about 1 mg of Adex, as far as effectiveness, so you are at about double what most guys here take for adex. Myself, I am on 37.5 mg/week Aromasin (12.5 mg on MWF). Just had my bloodwork while on this protocol so can't say yet where that leaves me bloodwise, but I feel pretty good at that level. You may want to switch to 12.5 mg MWF as well. There is no need to take it every day as it remains effective for 3 days, regardless of half life interpretation.

How have symptoms improved on your new protocol?

If you get the therapeutic phlebotomy, please post back your hemo/hemato levels. I'm curious to see where they end up. Be aware that giving blood can decrease serum iron, so you may want to include that in your test panel.


#3

I remember you recommending the MWF schedule with Aromisin as that is what you are on. I thought I would lower my dose to 6.25 ED. I feel great, but I would like to get my E2 to 20. Going to try 12.5 MWF. This still brings me back to my theory about chasing E2 spikes. Couldn't I just dose my AI 24hrs after my T shot and 24hrs after my HCg?

I work out and love red meat. What is BUN and SGOT? They are only marginally high so I won't worry. As long as they stay consistently at those levels.

I don't get scripts for phlebotomies. I just donate to red cross.

Again, symptom wise I feel great. I'm curious to see if getting my E2 in the 20s will be a noticeable improvement. For me, TRT has had a remarkable and positive impact on my life. Has it been the same for you?


#4

Its hard to time when to take AI in correlation to T "spikes"...technically, you should not have very wild T spikes since the esters act as a time release mechanism stored in your muscle depot...and especially with a homicidal AI such as aromasin, it makes it near impossible (Aromasin kills off the aromatase enzyme, so it doesn't immediately lower E2 as you might suspect, it just makes it impossible for more E2 to form...it does nothing for your existing E2)...

You can google BUN and SGOT (AST)...they are kidney and liver markers, respectively...

Does red cross accept your blood knowing the meds you are on?

If you are feeling great, I wouldn't push things too much...you MIGHT want to see how a bit higher E2 treats you, but don't get too crazy...you are fine tuning now, so dont deviate too far from the plan


#5

Agreed. Incremental changes from here on out.

Red Cross accepts all prescribed medications. They don't want you injecting UG drugs in your system and giving blood. I have also never had a problem donating with with high hematocrit levels.