T Nation

Lab Test


#1

Hey guys,

I'm new here and have a few questions. First how do you access the sticky's? Second I have my second lab test coming up to check my test levels, thyroid, iron, and vitamin D. Actually it is a complete workup. I want to know the best way to lower my test level. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


#2

welcome onboard.

The stickies are the threads at the top of the forum. The ones with a little yellow sticky note next to them. They never move and won't be 'bumped' down the list as new threads like this are posted - hence the name 'sticky'.

What did you test with your initial blood work?

What were your results?

What supplements/medications are you taking?

What symptoms do you have?

I don't know anything about lowering your T levels and don't recommend it, but here is a thread about that with more links in it:

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_trt/lowering_test_levels_1

I am not sure why you would want to mess your system up more then it is and get useless blood test results.

You should look at other areas in addition to testosterone because more than likely if you have a problem in one area, you have a pretty good chance of having other imbalances.

If you fix your T, you could feel pretty good (maybe going from 25% potential to 50% potential), but what if you also discovered and fixed other associated problems (i.e. - thyroid, vitamin D, ferritin, estradiol, etc.) and you could get up to 75% or even 90%. Why would you want to settle for 50%? Yeah, you are feeling twice as good as you did just on Testosterone, but why not make sure and have your other 'systems' checked out (and hopefully fixed) at the same time?


#3

Thanks

198 was my initial level on the test. My vitamin D was 22ng. Iron or (ferritin) was extremely low. I had the 10 shot dose done in one day. Thyroid was at the bottom. I will have to dig the paper out.

I'm taking 100 mcg. of thyroid. I was taking 50,000 iu of vitamin D daily for a month now I take 50,000 iu once a week. Test 1ml a week. We have been addressing all the problem areas. I suspect everything will have improved. I am still having some issues, knowing the test is coming up I quit pinning 3 weeks ago. I want to try increasing the test to see if it will make a difference so I want my levels to come in lower. I hope this gives you something to go on.


#4

As far as supplements I take multi-V, E, C, fish oil, magnesium, B-12/folic acid, calcium. My diet is clean. I quit creatine and drink a protein shake once and a while.


#5

So you're basically trying to cheat the blood test by underdosing your T injections? Why on earth would you want to do that? Getting your T and E2 levels adjusted properly takes some time - sometimes a year or more. If this is not done properly you will never feel right. Messing around like this will leave you not knowing what the correct doses should be for your T injections or AI (if you are on one, and you certainly will need to be if you increase your testosterone). Sorry for being so harsh, but this is just plain stupid.


#6

Don't worry about being harsh. The problem is I don't have a year or more. I am willing to roll the dice considering my situation. I have spent $$$$$$$$$$$! And been to hell and back. So if a little more T will help I would expect to see a bump relatively soon. If I go from 1ml to 2ml a week it is hardly a risk after some of the "fixes" the doc's have tried. And guess who had to pay the piper? What does AI stand for sorry for the ignorance.


#7

AI = aromatase inhibitor. Arimidex (anastrozole) is the standard drug used for this. As you increase your T intake, your body will convert T to estrogen (E2), and higher than optimal levels will cause a host of problems you probably do not want to suffer through. Having high T levels will do you no good if your E2 is not in check, as the E2 will bind to the receptor sites that the T should be using. Believe me, I have been to hell and back trying to get this balance correct. If you are insistent on blasting the testosterone, at least wait until you get your baseline levels set so you will know where to start from. If your doctor is not testing you for E2, he should be, and prescribing an AI if required.

Read the stickies for more information.


#8

Example: I was on T+hCG without AI. TT=1000 and E2=37 - I was a train wreck. Introduced Arimidex/anastrozole and my life was transformed. Lesson: E2 management can be mission critical and can undermine T effects.

Still 40: Where are located? - this does affect your options. What are you spending $$$$ on? We can probably help you get value for your $

Report T in mg's not ml's.

What other medical conditions do you have?
Are thyroid symptoms resolving at all?


#9

I have to wait for the labs to find out on the thyroid. Protocol is 2 months on a dose then re-check. I live on the E coast. I will look into the AI. What kind of problems with E2 not being regulated?

Thanks for the quick responses.


#10

I asked if thyroid symptoms were resolving, not thyroid lab numbers.

With elevated E2, still in normal range, one can high T levels from TRT and have many of the symptoms of hypogonadism. When that happens, lowering E2 to near 22pg/ml fixes those problems.

However, many symptoms of hypothyroidism and hypogonadism are the same. Adding thyroid problems to the mix complicates things.

East coast NY State is a problem if you want to get some tests done independent of a doctor. Can you be more specific.

Spend a few days reading stickies.


#11

I will work on the stickies.

Thyroid symptoms would be just a guess at this point. An indicator that it may be getting better is I'm not as fatigued. Again this may be a combination of the test cyp and vitamin D. I also take trazadone for sleep which is working well. Cymbalta to regulate the serotonin and norepinephrine. This turns down the pain receptors.

I am on T for life. I just laid of the past 3 weeks. The first 10 weeks it was 100 mg every week. I will go back to the 100 mg a week. I have no problems with sticks and never any soreness. I have not noticed any drop off in the last 3 weeks. My baseline pain has been stable. I have tramadol for tough days but it's like giving aspirin to an elephant.


#12

let us know what questions you have once you have read through the stickies.

also, can you post all of your test results? and make sure your doc is running the right tests (per the blood test sticky)

a couple of points:

1) you are taking weekly shots which normally cause hormone rollcoasters as your levels start too high and then drop too low.

2) you are not checking or treating for probable Estradiol issues caused by T-shots (especially weekly shots).

3) you are not checking for possible (probable?) thyroid/cortisol complications. if you have problems with one hormone/adrenal system, you probably have problems with others - since they are connected and dependent upon one another.

4) you are treating your low ferritin? and low Vitamin D3 which is good (you can also get your own D3 from most vitamin stores that might cost less than your prescription version depending on your co-pay).

5) if you need more than a total of 100mg of T a week then you more than likely have a problem with some other hormone/adrenal system that needs to be checked and fixed. simply increasing your T dose has a good chance of causing more problems and really messing you up as your body tries to compensate and dump the extra T into Estradiol or DHT.


#13

I have a few questions but will pose them tonight. I have my lab order and my doc agreed to have my Estradiol checked thanks to the informative posts. Thanks guys. What is missing in the work up?

Here it is:

Estradiol
Ferritin
Testosterone, total
TSH 3rd generation
VitaminD

I don't have my previous lab numbers I will get them this week.


#14

Should I get my prolactin checked? How do you get a result that is accurate when prolactin peaks in the morning?


#15

No one else worries about when/if prolactin peaks.

Vit-D25, not vit-D3 ---know what you are testing.


#16

iIt's vitamin D25.


#17

This is my first lab results from 3 months ago.

CBC with differential/platelet Testosterone,serum=198 L ng/dl
TSH=2.220
Vitamin B1, (Thiamine), plasma=40.5 H ug/l
WBC=6.9 Vitamin B2 whole blood=284
RBC=5.4 Vitamin D, 25=39.3 ng/ml
Prostate specific Ag, serum=0.5 ng/ml
Hemoglobin=15.7 Sedimentation rate westergren=1
Hematocrit=45.0 Vitamin C=2.1
MCV=83 Magnesium=2.1
MCH=29.1 Ferritin=46
MCHC=34.9
RDW=13.6
Platelets=252
Neutrophils=60
Lymphs=34
Monocytes=4

EOS=2
Basos=0
Neutrophils (absolute)=4.1
Lymphs (absolute)=2.4
Monocytes (absolute)=0.3
EOS (absolute)=0.1
Baso (absolute)=0.0
Immature granulocytes=0
Immature grans (abs)=0.0
Comp. metabolic panel(14)
Glucose,serum=120 H
BUN=14
Creatinine,serum=0.85
eGFR >59

BUN creatinine ratio=16
sodium,serum=138
Potassium,serum=4.0
Chloride,serum=99
Carbon dioxide, total=28
Calcium,serum=9.3
Protein,total,serum=7.3
Albumin,serum=4.5
Globulin,total=2.8
A/G ratio=1.6
Bilirubin,total=0.5
Alkaline phosphatase, S=65
AST=19
ALT=25

Lyme=<0.91
VitaminB12 and folate
VitaminB12 1,423

Folate (Folic acid), serum >19.9


#18

Some of the results in the above post have run together but everything is there.


#19

you already know you have high TSH so you need a complete Thyroid panel

TSH
Total T4
Total T3
Free T4
Free T3
Reverse T3
AM Cortisol
Ferritin


#20

New Labs

T=445
Estradiol=22.3
TSH=1.34
Vitamin D25=79.9
Ferritin=226

Talked about doing the complete thyroid panel but would be a waste of resources vs the return.