T Nation

Lab Results, Second Opinion?


#1

Read the stickies awhile ago finally got most of my test results back today.

I'm 28. Been feeling depressed. More apathetic and low energy. Not sad or anything. I think I've been kind of in denial about it for years. Feel like my recovery and strength compared to other guys is below average. I'm not sure if it's adrenal fatigue or not. Took the 4 saliva sample test, but haven't gotten the results back yet.

Reason I wanted to get my testosterone checked, was I took ZMA a couple years (26) ago, and my libido skyrocketed. I was getting erections like I was 13-14 again. Didn't notice there was a decrease until that happened. After a couple months everything went back to normal. I also noticed hair would grow on my cheeks when taking Zinc. When I stopped taking Zinc my cheeks wouldn't grown hair anymore. That got me to thinking there is something wrong with my hormones. I also started losing my hair around 17-18. Receding hairline. I think I was probably too zinc deficient early on causing the hairloss or something. I've been taking Zinc steady for the past 6 months. Notice hair is growing more and more on my cheeks. Not fully covered yet, but seems to be gradually getting thicker and covering more.

A few months ago I was freezing cold at home. It was 75 degrees (F) and I was shaking cold with goosebumps for two days. Wasn't sick or anything. That's when I found these stickies on Thyroid. I ordered some Iodoral but by the time it got here was no longer cold. I still took the 50 mg a day for 3 weeks. Then took 50 mg once or twice a week until it was gone. Might be why thyroid tests look good.

I seem to really carb sensitive when losing weight. I've ate healthy and still had trouble losing weight. (Last year) It wasn't until I cut carbs that I started to lose weight. But here's the thing. I would do boxing an hour a day 5 days a week and lift weights an hour to an hour and a half twice a week. Working out 6 days a week effectively, and I still couldn't lose weight until I cut carbs out of my diet. I'd cut my calorie intake down to below 2k to lose weight. Eventually I did 16/8 fasting (lean gains) and cut carbs (eating about 2k calories) while taking the EC stack just to lose weight. The weight did come off quickly, but it wasn't like a pound a week. It was like stall for 2-3 weeks lose 3-5 pounds on a weekend, stall another 2 weeks, etc. Just seems odd because guys that work as hard as me eat like 3k calories a day to lose weight or 3500 to maintain. So what is wrong with me.

Got my labs from Health Diagnostic Laboratory Inc.

Test - 482 (range 280-800)
FT - 10.96 (4.7-24.4)
E2 - 21.2 (<12-42.6)
SHBG - 28 (10-80)
PSA Total - 0.6 (0.1-3.9)
DHEA-S - 462 (160-449) This was flagged high. I don't take any DHEA. Doctor asked if I did.

Thyroid

TSH - 0.73 (0.27-4.20)
T4 - 8.3 (4.5-11.7)
fT4 - 1.43 (0.93-1.7)
T3 - 104 (80-200)

General

25-hydroxy-Vitamin D - 47 (optimal range 30-100)
Insulin - 3 (3-9)
Glucose - REJ
Estimated Average Glucose - 91.1 (<116.8)
B12 - 690 (>400)
I don't know if you want everything else. There is a lot of Genetic and other tests. Don't want to bombard with needless info.

The only things outside of normal range were:

Lp(a) Mass - 43 (<30) Recommended 1500mg of Niacin a day to lower it.
Lp(a)-P - 96 (<75) Can't read doctor's writing
HDL-P - 34.1 (>35) Recommends Fish Oil
hs-CRP - 1.1 (<1.0) Recommends a greens product for antioxidants to lower inflammation
Free Fatty Acid - 0.74 (<0.6) I'm doing fasting 16/8 and only eating carbs at the end of the day after working out. So I'm eating lots of fats. Because I wasn't working out a few days before the tests, I was eating mostly fats, so I think that was the only reason this test was high.
K+ was REJ. Other electrolytes were normal.
Lymphocytes - 50 (14-46) Doctor said this shows I've been fighting a virus. I haven't been sick though.
Neutrophils (absolute) - 1.7 (1.8-7.8) Low
Omega 3 (EPA+DHA) 6.6 (>8.0%)

Everything else is in the normal range. Lipids, Metabolic, Renal, Electrolytes, Liver, Lipoprotein Particles, Inflammation etc.

If there is any other info you guys need or if you want all of it just let me know. I'm kind of circling the drain here, so any help is appreciated. May have to go on anti-depressants if nothing can be done here, but I don't like the idea of randomly taking drugs until something works, without understanding what is actually wrong through testing.

I know I'm missing LH/FSH, Prolactin, fT3. If those are important I can ask my doctor in a week or two when I see him about the cortisol tests to test them.


#2

Go see a homeopath bro.. Don't use anti depressants ... Find one that uses biomaridian testing and let them guide you.. I feel better since taking this step.. Maybe slow down in the gym until you get this worked out..

Test prolactin for sure.. Don't start trt until you did the root of your problems

The labs you mentioned are VERY Important


#3

Is it Biomeridian? That came up when I googled what you wrote. I'll take a look at that. The problem is I live in a small town. I only got a couple recommendations from the compounding pharmacy in the area. Have to drive an hour to see this doctor, I'd have to drive 2 hours to see another. Doubtful there is a lot of selection in the homeopath department.

Is my E2 high? I know KSman said below 500 on TT is low, but can't seem to find a number for E2. Wondering whether I should ask my doctor about lowering it or not. Is the high DHEA-S anything to worry about?

Thought this doctor was good, but not so sure after today's visit. He just kind of ran through the test data and everything was in the normal range so no help. I told him I didn't like taking fish oil because it makes me feel depressed if I stop taking it for a couple days, if I run out or forget to take it. He asked me if it made me feel better when taking it and I said no 2 or 3 times and afterward he said it sounds like it does make you feel better. He also wanted to put me on supplements with 5-HTP, St Johns Wort, GABA, Inositol, etc, for my depression. It's like $60 for a month supply and I'm not so sure they're good, but we'll see.


#4

St. John's wort is good I know this cause I take it..

E2 is perfect.. Sweet spot around here seems to be 20

I personally wouldn't worry about Dhea-s being a bit high.

500 total t may be low for some and not low for others.. If you are a low t guy naturally 500 is absolutely fine...
These levels are individualistic and not set number should be given.. On the other hand total T of 500 when upper range is 800 is alot better then when upper range in 1000. You do not have low T..

I'm wondering about the lower insulin numbers?? Maybe your doctor needs to check the adrenals further?? See If he will run adrenal labs..

ACTH
Glucose
A1c
Cortisol
C peptide
Insulin

Labs should be taken fasting and at 8 am

Because you are feeling down I recommend 3000 IU Vit D per day and see where you land.. Personally I take 6000 but my numbers are a little less then yours

Good luck!!


#5

I think the low Insulin numbers are from me not having carbs 2-3 days before the test. I wasn't lifting so I cut carbs to help with weight loss. Plus the 16 hour fasting/8 hour eating diet. It had also been 14-16 hours since I ate when I took the test. Probably why Glucose came back Rejected.

HbA1c - 4.8 (<5.6) The others I'll have to find out about in a week or two. I did an AM Cortisol blood test, and a 4 sample saliva test. Results just have to come back.

I can try taking D3. I use to take 5k IU a day too, but haven't found that it improves my mood at all. I've been tanning a few times a week recently, and I live in Florida so I wasn't worrying about D3.

You're I think the first person who has said St. John's Wort improves their mood. I've always heard stories from people that it never helps their mood, so I was a bit skeptical about it. So at least there is a shot it might help.

What's the name of the St John's Wort you use? He recommended THN Brain Mood and Brain Calm for me. Do those look good? He sells these supplements out of his office, but I haven't bought them yet.


#6

Check overall thyroid function by measuring oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky.

CRP is not cardio specific, homocysteine is.

You might be fighting a virus, you had chills.

Low total cholesterol <160, is a problem if you have that.

ALT/AST?


#7

ALT/GPT - 13 (<42)
AST/GOT - 15 (<41)
ALP - 57 (40-129)
Total Bilirubin - 0.5 (Up to 1.2)
All the liver results.

Homocysteine - 10 (<11)
I have the C/T MTHFR677 gene. So he recommended I supplement with Folate.
CRP was under the Inflammation/Oxidation subject along with:
Myeloperoxidase - 251 (<400)
Lp_PLA - 162 (<200)
Fibrinogen - 373 (100-390)

I do have low total cholesterol.
134 (Optimal Range says <200)
What problem does that mean?

Other Lipids
LDL-C Direct - 65 (<100 CHD & CHD risk eq. <70) Just noticed this, not sure what CHD is and what I'm at risk for.
HDL-C - 61 (>40)
Triglycerides 70 (<150)
Non-HDL-C (calculated) - 72 (<130)

I keep on forgetting to buy a thermometer at the store. I should have the results in a day or two. If my temp is normal according to the sticky should I still push for the doctor to test my fT3?

Thanks guys for the help.


#8

Liver looks great!!

Lower cholesterol.. You need healthy fats!! Diet too clean? Do you eat red meat?


#9

By the way St. John's wort is not even close to all I am doing to improve my body function so I can't possibly say it is the only thing playing a part in me feeling a little better slowly... We live in a toxic world man. Our food is crap and we all treat out bodies like shit..

I have cut basically all sugars I eat minimal fruit ( not saying fruit is bad just not the best for me right now)

I switched to reverse osmosis water and try to drink quite a bit of it.

I eat whole foods (organic) and do my best to get blood sucking negative people as far away as possible..

I'm not telling you to do any of thin I'm just saying no one supplement is going to heal you.

There are many viruses you can have and might not stand out to you that you have them..

Bacterial infections and heavy metals also are a big culprit to pour health and/or pour bodily function..

Read about adrenal fatigue

I would suggest getting ft3, rt3 and ferritin checked also


#10

By the way St. John's wort is not even close to all I am doing to improve my body function so I can't possibly say it is the only thing playing a part in me feeling a little better slowly... We live in a toxic world man. Our food is crap and we all treat out bodies like shit..

I have cut basically all sugars I eat minimal fruit ( not saying fruit is bad just not the best for me right now)

I switched to reverse osmosis water and try to drink quite a bit of it.

I eat whole foods (organic) and do my best to get blood sucking negative people as far away as possible..

I'm not telling you to do any of thin I'm just saying no one supplement is going to heal you.

There are many viruses you can have and might not stand out to you that you have them..

Bacterial infections and heavy metals also are a big culprit to pour health and/or pour bodily function..

Read about adrenal fatigue

I would suggest getting ft3, rt3 and ferritin checked also


#11

Eat more eggs! This may be enough to raise T and alleviate symptoms.

DHEA-S is indicative of adrenal function.

When do you get your 4-point cortisol test back? Post here when you do.


#12

I'm eating red meat every day. It's the only thing that seems to have enough fat that I can eat while keeping carbs low. I've tried peanut butter, but seem to put on weight when eating that stuff. I was having eggs a couple days before the test, since I wasn't having carbs. I also hadn't masturbated or had sex more than a week before the test, so my T levels would have been at their peak I think. Maybe should have done it 2 or 3 days before the test to accurate results, because who's going to have sex once a week when in a relationship.

Ferritin was 53 (30-400)

The metal poisoning thing is interesting. I have been taking 50mg of zinc a day and read that it will make you copper deficient so I got some copper, but every time I take 2mg (1 capsule) it makes me feel like I'm going to throw up, which is weird. I ordered another brand and going to try that, but I just think it's odd. I've been taking 50mg of zinc for the past few months too, and can't seem to put 2mg of copper down (only tried 5-10 times), and I read you need a 1:10 ratio of copper to zinc.


#13

Steroid hormones and vit-D have their roots in cholesterol. Lower cholesterol <= 160 is associate with increased all-cause mortality. But need to point out that DHEA shows no indication of that issue.

If temperatures are low, you have a functional thyroid issue, otherwise not. Temperatures are the bottom line. fT3 is what gets the job done, regulates mitochondrial function.


#14

I tried looking up low cholesterol and increased mortality, all the stuff I could find were studies on older people 60-65+. I'm 28 does this still affect me? Is it just cholesterol or a combo of cholesterol and my ldl or hdl or something else?

Should I bring this up with my doctor even though he didn't seem to know and mention this, or is this something I should just try to raise on my own, and how do I do that?

I took my temperature yesterday and the digital thermometer I bought seemed to not work, so I bought a liquid (mercury free is all they had) one. I measured my temp in the middle of the day yesterday and it was 98, so it appeared to work.

This morning it was 97 before getting out of bed. Even went to the bathroom and then tried it again. Looked a little lower at 96.9. Going to try one more time tomorrow morning to be sure.

I was also reading through the stopthetyroidmadness website. They say you should have a 40-45% of iron divided by TIBC, and ferritin about 130. My iron was 80, and TIBC 394 which is only 20 percent when divided. My ferritin is 53. Should I try supplementing iron, and how much, and for how long? I'm assuming I just can't take 15mg everyday for several months because I'll eventually go too high being a male.


#15

Was 97.6-97.8 yesterday morning. I felt a bit warmer. Only thing I can think of was I sprinkled some iodized salt on a meal the day before.

Had no iodized salt yesterday but temp was 97 again when I woke up this morning.


#16

I see the doctor tomorrow about cortisol levels.

Looking at the tests I haven't gotten from the sticky, I need:
LH/FSH
Prolactin
DHT - Do I need this one with my other numbers looking good?

fT3
rT3

Should I look at doing Pregnenolone if my cortisol levels are still normal?

How should I convince this doctor to do these tests if he doesn't want to order them? Is there a good way to argue it without demanding it and coming off as an annoying patient so he'll do them?


#17

So the past week has been kind of a nightmare. The doctor showed me my results for my saliva cortisol test by using his laptop but they couldn't get me a copy and somehow failed to email me a copy of the report. My cortisol levels were a bit out of range and he told me to take Dr Wilson's Super Adrenal Stress formula. 3 pill in the morning.

My cortisol was
3.3 (range 3.7-9.5) 9am
4.8 (1.2-3.0) 2pm
1.2 (0.6-1.9) 8pm
0.9 (0.4-1.0) 12:30am

The graph looks really messed up though, I think because it assumes everyone wakes up at 4-5 am or something, because that's where it peaks on the graph. It just curves downward from there.

He also tested my hormones with the saliva test, and my testosterone came up a little below average, and DHEAS was around the low end of the range, so he told me to take 25mg of DHEA to raise it and my testosterone.

I got the blood work done for the tests he didn't do. Unfortunately they screwed up and didn't test my Free T3 even though it was in the notes.

T3 Reverse - 25 (8-25 ng/dL)
Pregnenolone - 22 (13-208 ng/dL)
FSH - 2.5 (1.5-8.0 mIU/mL)
LH - 3.4 (1.5-9.3 mIU/mL)

When I mentioned the pregnenolone, he said I could also take some, so I got a supplement that has 25mg DHEA and 100mg Preg combined. Today I was told I could take 50mg DHEA, but a little afraid of taking too much pregnenolone because I'm reading it can raise estrogen too. So should I get a separate supplement with just 25mg of DHEA or is it safe to take 200mg of preg since mine is low?

Everything is in range, although low, I don't know what I should do at this point. Been reading a little on adrenal function and supposedly you're suppose to quit caffeine and eat 6 small meals a day with complex carbs, protein and fat. You also have to eat within 30 minutes of waking up. That 6 meal plan is just so old and I think every doctor recommends it for everyone, so I'm guessing their info is out of date.

There doesn't seem to be any info on intermittent fasting and whether you can do that or not. I'd like to continue my EC stack, and IMF so I can lose weight, but if need be I'll make the switch for a few months and try to lose weight that way. I've had trouble in the past losing weight with this kind of diet though. Doctors didn't seem to know much about diet and adrenal function.