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Lab Results - High E2 and Free T

Okay, lab results after being on 200mg/week Test Cyp:

Total T - 764 250-1100ng/dl - In Range

Free T - 256 35.0 - 155 pg/dl - High

Estradiol - 60 < = 39 pg/dl - High

I actually feel pretty good with these numbers but I am wondering why the Free T is so high. I’m hoping that some of the really smart guys on here will weigh in with their thoughts. I’m 45 yrs. old, workout 3-4 times a week for about 3 hrs a day, mostly MMA type sparring and grappling. Bodyweight is 235 lbs, height is 602. Not sure if you wanted the bio measurements, as I’m not concerned with adding muscle, etc, but went on TRT in September of last year.

First I used Testim and then Axiron for a short period of time. Test Cyp seems to be better for me, and I’m pinning twice a week, Mon/Thurs.

As far as Arimidex, my endo prescribed 1mg/day, which I knew to be really high. I was taking .25mg every other day and one night I really suffered from the effects of low E at which point I stopped taking it altogether until I went for my blood test (3 weeks following this episode).

Overall, I would have to say that I’m feeling much better than I did before injections, I just know from lurking on these boards that my numbers are off.

Thanks in advance for the insight and guidance, you guys have been a tremendous asset!

If you feel good on this protocol, then your numbers are not off. They are exactly where they need to be.

How did your symptoms improve/degrade after you stopped taking the arimidex until your blood test? Most people feel better with lower E2 in the 20-30 range, but this is not universal.

One thing to note is that you need to make sure you are getting your blood/liver/kidneys markers done as well. If these are out of whack, your T levels may need adjusting downwards. Same with your thyroid, adrenals, etc.

Your Free T is much higher than expected with the Total T numbers. You have a very efficient liver that seems to reduce SHBG, which means lower SHBG = more Free T. Pretty unusual to see that high of a discrepancy though, but I cant see why that would be an issue.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
If you feel good on this protocol, then your numbers are not off. They are exactly where they need to be.

How did your symptoms improve/degrade after you stopped taking the arimidex until your blood test? Most people feel better with lower E2 in the 20-30 range, but this is not universal.

One thing to note is that you need to make sure you are getting your blood/liver/kidneys markers done as well. If these are out of whack, your T levels may need adjusting downwards. Same with your thyroid, adrenals, etc.

Your Free T is much higher than expected with the Total T numbers. You have a very efficient liver that seems to reduce SHBG, which means lower SHBG = more Free T. Pretty unusual to see that high of a discrepancy though, but I cant see why that would be an issue.[/quote]

VTBalla thanks a ton for weighing in with this. I feel much more confident hearing it from you. As far as feeling better when getting off of Arimidex, I can only guess that I passed right through the proverbial sweet spot on my way up to where I am today. I don’t think it made that much of a difference physically, but I did feel a little mentally “foggy” during this time. I have started taking .25mg E3d since getting the blood test results.

I really appreciate your input and that of the community here. Thanks again!

[quote]dashort wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
If you feel good on this protocol, then your numbers are not off. They are exactly where they need to be.
[/quote]

So I went in to see my Endo and I asked about HCG. His response was that HCG was expensive and that I should keep the number of injections down in order to avoid scarring etc., since TRT was for life.

He did put me on 25mg of Clomid per day and said that we would check the appropriate levels at my next blood test to see if it was working.

I know you guys have experience with this and wanted to get your opinion on a Clomid protocol.

Anything I should be concerned with or should I just press forward with his 25mg per day regimen?

Thanks!!

D.

hcg does not build up scar tissue–it is a subcutaneous injection which diabetics have been performing multiple times a day for decades.

It IS expensive…if you do not have insurance…my copay is $15 for a 2 month supply.

Clomid as an adjunct to TRT is not well researched. I like the idea in theory (it keeps your HPTA and balls alive, which is a good thing) but am not yet entirely sold on its effectiveness. You will be a good guinea pig.

Clomid has been shown to lower IGF-1 levels with long term use. Other side effects include estrogen like symptoms (emotional, crying, etc.). Also problems with vision in some users.

Chiming in on the HCG, Im paying $167 for 1 vial of it, not covered by my insurance. Thinking of switching to t injections and HCG every other month to keep costs done, not sure yet.

You can get hcg for around 15 dollars a month.

In my opinion, you should lower your t a little to try to be at the top of the range. This will also bring your estradiol down. It would be safer long term to be in the high normal range.

[quote]bholiday wrote:
All day chemist has hcg for around 15 dollars a month.

In my opinion, you should lower your t a little to try to be at the top of the range. This will also bring your estradiol down. It would be safer long term to be in the high normal range.[/quote]

Nice just looking at their prices and inventory now. Do you know if its legit stuff, ie. has anyone done testing on the quality of it?

[quote]GFA wrote:

[quote]bholiday wrote:
All day chemist has hcg for around 15 dollars a month.

In my opinion, you should lower your t a little to try to be at the top of the range. This will also bring your estradiol down. It would be safer long term to be in the high normal range.[/quote]

Nice just looking at their prices and inventory now. Do you know if its legit stuff, ie. has anyone done testing on the quality of it?[/quote]

Been using them for years. Many guys on hrt have been using them. I get a lot of my meds from them, cortisol, arimidex, nizorol, etc.

My understanding is that they are a pharmacy in India.

I have been pleased with the products I’ve purchased from ADC as well…haven’t tried their HCG yet though…may put that in my next order if my insurance doesn’t stop fucking around and demanding my doctor jump through hoops backwards to get it to me

@VT, ya I had problems with my ins company and they asked my doc to do the same. I just told him to not bother.

Maybe Ill place an order and see. Thanks for the heads up. $15 is much better than $160 :slight_smile:

Did it take long to arrive?

Well, as a quick update: Since starting the Clomid regimen, I’ve noticed that I have had frequent headaches. Because it’s only been less than a week, I’m wondering if it is only coincidental, but I am also wary that this new protocol may be causing it.

Do you guys have any preference or advice as to whether or not I should just press for the HCG? I hear so many good things about an HCG regimen, and I could probably call the Dr’s office and ask them to change the script.

Maybe I should be more patient and wait another week or two to see if the headaches stop…

[quote]dashort wrote:
Well, as a quick update: Since starting the Clomid regimen, I’ve noticed that I have had frequent headaches. Because it’s only been less than a week, I’m wondering if it is only coincidental, but I am also wary that this new protocol may be causing it.

Do you guys have any preference or advice as to whether or not I should just press for the HCG? I hear so many good things about an HCG regimen, and I could probably call the Dr’s office and ask them to change the script.

Maybe I should be more patient and wait another week or two to see if the headaches stop…[/quote]

Clomid has alot of sides and not used long term. You might have visual problems with it as well. I had massive headaches when I used clomid in the past too.

So, I called the Dr’s office to tell them about my headaches and to request a script for HCG. They tell me that they’ll get back with me, after they get my information and pharmacy telephone number.

In the meantime, I look up my insurance plan to make sure that I have coverage. The website is totally confusing and shows some really high costs $300,000 per month, so I call and speak with them.

I am told by the representative that HCG is a commodity and the prices change daily. I am also told that the doctor has to call in and complete a prescreening to get preapproval. He basically says that its really difficult to get this medication approved. If it does get approved, they have to source it direct from their own pharmacy.

Is this consistent with what you guys have seen? Am I really off base here?

I’m concerned that the endo may not make a good enough case for me to get HCG and then I’ll be stuck with shrinking testicles and such…

I have the same issue with HCG. Its around $160-$180 a vial which is only good for 30-60 days. I told my doc not to worry about trying to get it approved after my endo failed.

[quote]GFA wrote:
I have the same issue with HCG. Its around $160-$180 a vial which is only good for 30-60 days. I told my doc not to worry about trying to get it approved after my endo failed.
. [/quote]

Thanks for the info. I’m going to make sure I get the script and then order it from India if my insurance doesn’t cover it.

I want to remain above board legally here, and I believe that HCG is a Schedule III CDS.

I’ve heard good reports about alldaychemist.com so that’s where I’ll start.

I appreciate the input!

lol @ $300k/month. You don’t happen to have Caremark (by CVS) as your pharmacy plan do you? One of the hcg’s that I looked up had that as the copay–can’t remember what brand. It was absurd, but I figured it was just a programming error on the site. If I remember correctly, it was the synthetic (or whatever its called) hcg and not a urine-derived brand.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
lol @ $300k/month. You don’t happen to have Caremark (by CVS) as your pharmacy plan do you? One of the hcg’s that I looked up had that as the copay–can’t remember what brand. It was absurd, but I figured it was just a programming error on the site. If I remember correctly, it was the synthetic (or whatever its called) hcg and not a urine-derived brand.[/quote]

HAHAHAH you nailed it man. I was transitioned to Caremark (CVS) on January 1st and I really don’t think it’s been a good move. The costs have all increased and the customer service has been less than impressive.

Do you remember what your copay was for this? I was following your recommendation to use the pharmacy in India, so I would guess that the copay was much higher…

By the way, as of today, AllDayChemist no longer carries HCG. Some people on another forum are saying that no India pharmacies are carrying it anymore.

Something is going on…sheez. Why does this have to be so “cloak and dagger”?