T Nation

Kyphosis of 17 YO Girl


#1


Hi guys, i have decided to ask here what you will recomend to my problem.Im training 3 years but found my problem last year and im trying to found way how to cure it.In 2012 i was only street workout, bars, push ups,pull ups it was very hard to get strenght because i was tiny and only 41 kilos, but i increased 50 kilos only with my body ,it was unreal i have trained 2 times in the day only push ups and pull ups.

I didnt have the corect technic of the exercises but in time im more better than before , because i was using more my arms than the back,now im using my back its still not good cuz my rear delt are weak, and the front ones are very tight with my chest, ive started doing stretch there also..

So i have training and crosfit im inlove with lifting heavy, im lucky or too adrenaline there but my body started to be stiff, when i lied down on my bed ,my back get started to be stiff, and i was only stretching my hamstrings,and cat stretch, a little bit of arms and ready for gym.. now i dont stretch them,i think they are overacvtive with my quads, the glutes are very weak and here i would ask what could i do for that, when i do squat i only feel my quads, but if i half squat i feel my gluteus a bit better, and m lower back hurts little cuz i have a curve there 10 degrees,so ive stopped that, also the deadlift ive stop cuz my erectors of the lumbar are to tight after workout im pulling with my back and low weights its hard to pull my shoulders straight, my neck is forward little too..

and im getting too tired like wow i was like pulling 110kg for 5 reps,no i was pulling 60 correct.. because of the cure the left side ot my ack is bigger,stronger than the other, my traps are very bigger i know they lift shoulders, but when i try to work on my delts im pulling them also, its unconscious... thats the problem also to have weak rear deltoid.I have started to massaje with tennis ball my gluteus and the quads with foam roller, stretching the chest also the lats.Whith exercises what i have to cure first the lumbar and the curve there,thand the kyphosis?Im runing every day,doing sprint,some pull ups.. nothin else.And how can i active the lower abs , i was doing rises for abs on the bar but not to good, my hips are very thight doing warrior stretch , the pelvic isnt good too..


#2

From the photos given, it looks like you are purposefully standing in/exaggerating the poor posture, unless you seriously walk around like your posture in the photos. If you are walking around in that posture (which I doubt/hope isn’t the case), you have A LOT of work to do and likely would benefit from a significantly modified training plan.

Performing some corrective breathing patterns (look up some PRI methods), stretching the pectorals, and working on the scapular and posterior musculature is your best course. Also, look into some lumbar stability/core work to bring your lumbar region back to neutral (which the PRI methods mentioned before will utilize as well), stretch your hip flexors, and activate you glutes. If traditional deadlifts are problematic, I would recommend single leg RDL variations and bridging/hip thruster variations.


#3

Sounds like you have a whole lot of instability through your hips.

Doing focused glute work will improve that dreadful anterior pelvic tilt youve got going and get rid of the tight sensation in your glutes. With proper support posteriorly, your hip flexors and hamstrings wont need to maintain so much tone and will relax. Do TA activations as well, combined with getting rid of the tilt that will make your lower ab region look better.

As for your thoracic spine you have a huge hinge somewhere T5-8ish. Not much you can do about that really, just the particular of how your back is going to move.

I think you said you have a touch of forward head, look at upper crossed syndrome. Stretching your pecs will only help so much you have to add mid and lower trap and rhomboid work and maybe even deep neck flexions.


#4

Ive tried the bridges and hip thrust but i feel only my hamstrings not the gluteus they are little active, that is cuz of the lumbar problem, and i have to fix first the pelvic with a lot of stretches… i will post a pic of my 10 degrees curve in the lumbar part, do i have to do stretch there or actvie the erectors of the spine to straight the curve?And i can pull my shoulders straight but when i bent my kyphosis is showing up…


#5

I can be straight, and i never did a stretches to my neck ill try some,the kyphosis i have it from along time like when i was 11 years old, because of the posture my shoulders were always forward, when i started to train my back got srenght to keep my body with better posture… ill try ur advices too. And i wanna ask when i sleep i have to lie on my back only i dont have to lie on one side cuz my shoulder is forward like im sleeping on it…


#6

Your problems sound an awful lot like mine!! I have similar issues - mine were due to 20 years of one sided karate practice. My pelvis ended up twisted into what’s referred to as a “right on right sacral torsion”. This causes problems throughout the entire body. I’ have (or had) pretty much all the same issues as you.

Someone advised you to look up PRI - I’d second that. Postural Restoration Institute. There’s an article in particular - something like “Do your clients have difficulty getting into AF IR”. Read that one - there’s actually a series of articles linked from it.

Another thing I think you’ll find useful is to look at NeuroKinetic Therapy - their FB page is their best resource.

For me the solution was to identify the muscles that were inactive and weak, foam roll and stretch what was tight and work obsessively on form in all the big movements (so pullups, squats, deadlifts, pushups, dips etc). Video yourself doing these things and get people to give feedback on form. This can really help you to understand how your body is supposed to move and that’s part of the solution. Your body needs to relearn how it’s supposed to move. I think mainly it’s a neural problem - the nervous system is firing the muscles up in the wrong sequences.


#7

have you actually seen a healthcare professional yet?


#8

For a better assessment of photo’s you’ll need to take them straight from the front, rear and side. Not 3/4 while exaggerating certain curves. Also just look straight ahead and not down.

From a functional/ orthopaedic perspective things don’t look too bad, same goes for the x-ray (it also seems the x-ray was held up and a little bent in the process) Btw. if you value your privacy you might want to block out your name in the x-ray (if that is your name)

I’m not sure how to interpret some of the things you’re saying because of the language barrier but my overall advice would be to still focus on compound movements with maybe some tweaks and targeted stabilization exercises added. Posting videos of those movements would help to get a better idea of what’s happening, again especially because of the language barrier. It will be easier that way for people to provide feedback and come up with cues for adjustments and ideas for additional exercises.

I would not put too much faith in stretching alone. Full range of motion strength and stabilization training will do a lot more for you over time, which is why you want to keep compound movements in there.
I’ve also had good results with full range of motion bench presses and push ups for young females with exaggerated kyphosis (filling out the pecs actually promoted a more upright position). Don’t stare yourself blind on having to stretch the pectorals, it’s probably not where the problem lies.

At 17yrs old (going by post title) you’ll have a lot of room to work with. All the best.


#9

Ill show some pull ups front and sidelong I ddint have strenght cuz I was trainng yesterday when I do sprints,cross then im doing pull ups http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wdDXPiLBtWk


#10

Sidelong http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UKcwST1XXdE


#11

Yes but they didnt help me,telling me wrong stuff I had to train my low back the erectors there and my quads I had only pain, they even didnt show me stretch exersises… here dips and push ups http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3Itn7sSbs8U


#12

If that is you xray it looks like compesated scoliosis and not a kyphosis like you said. The good news is that if you get proper treatment it probably wont get any worse at your age. But unfortunately you will probably never be able to make much change in the curve so you will probably always have a bit of pain with training. Theres no reason not to train but even proper technique and exercises won’t fix much. If you can find a knowledge chiropractor or pt that know how to train and treat someone with scoliosis that would be best.


#13

Firstly Giveithard, your pullups etc are looking great! Well done - especially as you’ve been working with some dysfunction. You should be proud :slight_smile:

I’m no expert, and can only comment on what I see, and my own experiences. Others with more knowledge and experience of these things may well disagree. But for what it’s worth…

  1. Badwolf42 may well be right that this can’t be fixed. But I was told with 100% certainty that I couldn’t regain movement in my hip as the restriction was bone on bone due to osteoarthritis. This diagnosis was made by a top specialist and supported by countless physios etc. They were wrong!!! It WAS all down to movement impairment/muscle imbalance which was resolved with a bit of hard work and determination. I think there’s always hope.

  2. Based upon your posture photos and on the side view of your pullups it would seem that your chest is tight and traps weak and overstretched? I can’t quite tell from the video - does your rib cage flare as you do your pullups? I’d have thought it might help to stretch the chest muscles but more importantly activate/strengthen traps and abdominals. So maybe ab wheel rollouts with close attention to form. Take a look at this article - specifically the bit about combining abwheel rollouts with pullups - I think that could help your posture whilst doing pullups (it’s helping me a lot):

Another thing that I discovered today that I think will work very well for me (I have similar issues) is upside down dips. I do these on gymnastic rings. You’ll do them easily as you’re very strong, but just be careful and make sure you find somewhere to do them safely. I have a feeling they might be good for you too as they work the traps in conjunction with the biceps and I feel they help to balance out the muscles in the chest and upper back. A good posture correction exercise I find.

  1. I emphasize external rotation of the shoulders when doing dips and pushups. Maybe this would be good for you too - so on your dips a little more upright and think of turning your hands out a little - better if you can do them on bars that angle outwards, or gymnastic rings. Pushup on rings feel great for me - again with shoulders externally rotated - so try to keep hands turned out. I think you’d know if it was going to be good for you just by trying it - instantly I felt it stabilizing my shoulders and straightening out my upper back.

  2. From what you’ve posted your main issues seem to be with lower body training? And it makes sense, as if your spine is out of place at one end it will also be ‘out’ at the other end. Which means your pelvis is almost certainly not sitting correctly. Can you do a deep overhead squat? Just bodyweight. A video of that from side and back would probably give a lot of clues.

But again - well done on the bodyweight stuff - you’re looking awesome!! :slight_smile:


#14

For some reason I can’t see the videos of the pull ups. I can only see the dip/push up.

It looks like the dip bars are wide parallel bars (not V shaped) which works a little better for chest emphasis, which is where you lean forward more, flare the elbows a bit more, keep the legs more in front and lower yourself as far as your shoulders allow, emphasizing the pectoral muscles. For triceps emphasis keep your elbows closer to your body, stay more upright and don’t go all the way down (just to about parallel).

What you’re doing now is a little inconsistent during the movement so find a form you want to do and stick with that during the movement. Also keep your head neutral, core tight and squeeze your butt.
During the push ups it almost seems you’re using a different form during the side view. In the front view you’re looking ahead and seem to be bracing your core better with your elbows closer to your body. In the side view your body is sagging and your elbows are facing out quite a bit.

I would suggest to work on keeping your core tight and your elbows closer to your body. It should help to do planks and “plank push ups” (look on youtube) for that.

Just looked at the dip video on T-Nation, it’s great. If I contradict anything CT says just consider him right and go with that:
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/strength-training-topics/dip

In regards to the scoliosis, I’m assuming it’s idiopathic, that you are of have been seeing a specialist for it, that it hasn’t been worse, that you haven’t or aren’t wearing a brace, that it is not progressing and that you’re past your growth spurt. I’m pretty much assuming it won’t get worse, but also that it’s likely that the curvature won’t get any straighter. Functionally and quality of life wise the deviation seems small enough to not cause any real problems for the rest of your life.

Now, the real challenge lies probably more in the squat and deadlift area, so how about that?


#15

My chest is thight yes but my traps no both traps and neck are thight ive started doing stretches for them,my low traps are very weak and ill try upside down dips :slight_smile: when I do pull ups if i pull my elbows more behind I feel a stretch in the chest and the rhomboid minor,major where hunchback is, are working but I have to squeeze my elbolws alot sometimes im pulling with my hands not back…the abwheel with pull ups is good idea :slight_smile: ill fix the push ups and yes Im focused on my low back here a clip of oberhead squat with stick I didnt have bar so… I have trained it in gym too. http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PJngH_Qb6hU


#16

When I do push ups I feel my core weak cuz my low back is like falling I mean the waist Ill try again the planks , and yes my doctor said my scoliosis is idiopathic ive got it from the yoth and it wont have development. Ill go in the gym and take a clip of my squat and deadlift yes I have a big challenge here but Im getting very massive in low body I mean the legs I forgot to say to susani that the pelvis is not sitting corectly and because of that on my left side muscules are more growed than the right side.


#17

You aren’t nearly as bad as me, but I am seeing similarities.

I’m seeing a ‘kick’ to the left in your squat. It’s subtle, but I’m sure it’s there. Can you squat deeper than this? It looks a bit as if this is where you stick - as if you can’t get into a full, deep squat?

Your squat demonstrates a much more subtle version of my dysfunction. It’s interesting that someone made the comment that your x-ray looked more like scoliosis (side bending of the spine) and the Kyphosis being a compensation pattern for that. I have no idea whether that’s correct, but what I will say is that my problem is a sacral torsion which results in twisting and side bending of the spine (so scoliosis).

Lie on your back on the floor, knees bent with feet flat on floor and arms out to the sides. Keeping knees together, let them fall to the side so left side first so that outer thigh of left leg touches the floor. Keep arms flat down on the floor. Now repeat on the other side. Do you have better mobility on one side than the other? My guess is you’re going to be tighter when your knees drop to the right.

Take a look at this video and see if any of it seems to hold true for you. I suspect you have a little bit of sacral torsion - simply because you have so many symptoms similar to me - although yours are far more subtle.

http://daltonmyoskeletalvideos.com/treating-si-joints-and-backward-sacral-torsion/

You get various different types of sacral torsion, but the basic principles are the same for all. It’s not always painful. But it REALLY screws up the way the whole body moves. Thoracic problems can be either the cause OR the result of a sacral torsion. It’s all tied in together.


#18

Haha, you?re looking strong on those pull ups, I can see the video now.
Some suggestions:
When you start the pull try to focus on bringing your shoulders down and chest/ sternum up, then continue by pulling ?through? the elbows.
I would also add some pull ups with hands at shoulder width just to get a different emphasis on the (upper) back. Same goes for chin ups.

What I would really recommend is that you get a set of gymnastic rings so you can do different types of horizontal pull ups. You can really emphasize the different parts of your back that way. You can also use the rings for neutral grip pull ups and dips (a bit harder to do initially but way nicer for your shoulders). Btw. If you hang the rings off the pull up bar wrap the slings around the bar to prevent them from sliding apart (it shouldn?t be a problem for shoulder width things, but you never know)
Finally I would dump the pull up in the neck thing. In my experience you?ll get a lot more out of the other pull up variations.


#19

The overall movement of your squat looks good. The main area to focus on should be your right butt and overall pelvic/ lower back area. You can see a slight “buttwink”/ “sag” developing on the right side as you squat down (the lower back rotation is probably just locking up the movement chain sooner on the right side). I would be interested to see how the movement develops with a weighted bar.

What I really would suggest is that you develop a low bar squat if you can have access to the proper equipment. It would probably be a longer term project but here’s why I think you could really benefit from that movement:

  • A low bar position requires you to develop a “platform” with your upper back on which the bar rests. Since the bar rests right below the (outside of the) spina scapula it requires you to bring your shoulders back, your scapulae together and lock the bar in with your arms. This should help stabilize and strengthen the area of your thoracic scoliosis/ kyphosis. From the looks of your different videos I think it should be possible to develop a good low bar position, but it might take some time.
  • A low bar squat requires your torso to lean more forward which makes the lower back and erectors work harder. A well-developed set of erectors is very important to stabilize a scoliosis so this is a great way to train them.
  • Low bar squatting makes you sit back more and (once you start hitting proper depth) really works the hip stabilizers and glutes, which is what you need to train.

Whatever squat you choose to develop I think it is important, especially in your case, that you prevent any (unilateral) form breakdown from happening. If that means not going to or under parallel that?s OK for now. At the moment you need to focus on keeping your right butt in alignment (without pulling your left side in) and increasing depth as you gain flexibility AND stability. Once you can hit proper depth (at or below parallel) you should really reap the benefits.

Take your time to learn the movement. Try to initially squat often and not as heavy as possible. What I would recommend is starting with 3x a week of just doing doubles and triples with a weight that you can easily handle. Racking, unracking and setting up your stance often. Focus on a slow and controlled descent and occasionally stay in the bottom position for a few seconds while staying tight and stable before coming up (keep the weights relatively light).

Note: The above is just my opinion so please make up your own mind and consult a professional if you feel that is necessary


#20

In your pushup video, you seem to have trouble maintaining stability/rigidity, especially around your lower back. This could be because of weak abs (relative to your other muscle groups). Ab-wheel rollouts from your knees, trying to keep your tailbone tucked underneath you, are a good way to work on this.

As far as the kyphosis, there are a number of different stretches to work on thoracic extension. One that I like is stretching backwards over a foam roller or PVC pipe, and just letting gravity stretch you out. Keep your butt on the ground, put the roller about in the middle of your back and just stretch backwards over it. Just hold the position and try to relax. It takes a few weeks but you’ll notice you’re able to stretch over it better over time.

I think a combination of ab strengthening and thoracic extension work will make quite a bit of difference for you.