T Nation

KSman, Same Movie Different Character


I've been perusing this site for months now trying to learn and acquire some insight for my symptoms. That said I hope I've done enough homework to not sound like an idiot... So any feedback would be appreciated. Here we go. Symptoms; weak, tired, lethargic, low libido (however no performance issues). balls feel softer now after vasectomy and feel like sack is tight more often. not sure if this is because i am paying attention now. difficult to gain muscle or lose fat.

Often feel cold when others around me are just fine. Morning temps always below 97.3 F, I wake up very tired and never feel refreshed til later at night. Does not matter how much I sleep the night b/4. That said, ive always been a night owl but my life schedule doesnt coincide. I feel moody, brain fog, etc... I could keep going afraid I would be rambling. This has all occurred over last 2 years.

Personal stats; 37yo male, married, father of 3 great kids under 9 yrs of age. Done w/ adding to family. vasectomy dec of '12. Very busy. Career firefighter, no set sleep pattern, bell goes off we go... Not complaining just know what poor sleep does to a person. 6' tall, 215#, 8-10% BF w/ seven site skin calipers. That said have always had female type fat storage, love handles around hips and Xtra around bottom of pecs, even though I can see veins in my lower abs. I know hard to believe. Other wise very lean else where. Ex div 1 college athlete. Been lifting and training since puberty. B.S. exercise science.

Health history; about 6 years ago had gall bladder removed following idiopathic acute pancreatitis. No gall stones... The docs never could give me a reason for this. Only symptom since then is loose stools, always. I think it was from an OTC prohormone i took for 3 weeks about a month b4 the pancreatitis kicked in. got it from a local nutrtion store. Other than that went on with life until 2yrs ago. Started complaining to drs about aforementioned symptoms. Don't have all lab work from beginning but I will start with the labs from March '13

Total CHL 195
LDL-C 143. High
HDL-C 54
Triglycerides 181
Non HDL-C 140
Above are mg/dL

Insulin uU/mL 7 range 3-9
FFA mmol/L .48 range <.6
Glucose mg/dL 76 range 70-99
HbA1c% 5.1 range <5.6
25-hydroxy-VIt D ng/mL 33 range 30-100
Uric acid mg/dL 4.7 range 3.4-6.9
Homocysteine umol/L 7 range <11

Cystatin C mg/L .70 range <.95
Est glomuler filtration rate mL/min/1.73m2 >150. Range >89
Creatinine serum mg/dL 1.5. High. Range .7-1.2
BUN mg/dL 21 high range 6-20

Na+ 138. 133-145
K+ 4.6. 3.3-5.1
Cl 101. 96-108
CO2 31. High 22-29
Above are mmol/L
Calcium mg/dL 9.8. 8.6-10.2 As a side note this has been just above high on previous labs, like 10.3

ALT/GPT U/L 24 range <42
AST/GOT U/L 23 range <41
ALP U/L 61 range 40-129
Total bilirubin mg/dL .9 range up to 1.2
Albumin g/dL 4.7 range 3.5-5.2
Total protein g/dL 6.7 range 6.1-8.0
Ferritin ng/mL 206 range 30-400

TSH uIU/mL 4.83 H. range .27-4.20
T4 ug/dL 7.4 range 4.5-11.7
T3 ng/dL 93 range 80-200
I know this is incomplete I will post more in a bit and explain, but this is all I got this round of labs

DHEA-s ug/dL 164 range for 35-44 yr old male 89-427
Estradiol pg/mL 20.2 range <12-42.6
Fsh mlU/mL 2.6. Range 1.5-12.4
LH mIU/mL 2.5. Range 1.7-8.6
SHBG nmol/L 32 range 10-80
TT ng/dL 424 range 280-800 This has been in high 200's before on previous labs in last 2 yrs
FTest ng/dL 8.80 range 4.7-24.4

CBC Labs. I will give the important ones that stand out to me. Let me know if you need more
Hemoglobin g/dL 16. 12.5-17
Hematocrit % 48. 36-50
Platelets 242. 140-415
Lymphocytes %. 45. 14-46
Eosinophils % 8. 0-7. H

After 3 drs including a gp and anti-aging dr. I finally was introduced to a DO dr who I initially liked, now after reading not so sure???
The above labs were 8 am, 12hr fast. He diagnosed me as borderline hypothyroid and secondary hypogonadism. Px armour thyroid .5 Gr
1x daily (havent noticed anything different, might actually feel worse), and to start trt at 200mg/every 2 weeks. IM. I did 1 shot and started to read a lot and declined the trt for now. I requested more labs and to
dig deeper as to cause. He also said that the armour thyroid probably wouldn't help much. WTF does that mean... So more labs

FT3 3.4 pg/ml. 2.77-5.27
RT3 14.7 ng/dL. 9.0-27.0
Thyroperioxidase AB, S 1.1 uU/mL <9.0
Thyroglobulin AB 20 iu/mL <116
Iodine 53 ng/mL 40-92

ACTH 19 pg/mL. 10-50
SHBG 26 nmol/L. 10-57
DHEA-s 122 mcg/dL 65-334
IGF1.S 187 ng/mL 69-226
Cortisol 10.1 ug/dL. B4 10AM. 6-23
Prolactin 6.9 ng/mL 3.7-17.9
Psa .9. 0-4

TT 444 ng/dL 240-950
FT 16 ng/dL. 9-30
LH .8 miU/mL 1.7-8.6
FSH 2.0 miU/mL. 1.6-9.7
25- VIt D total. 35 ng/mL. 25-80

CoQ-10 630 mcg/L. 433-1532
CoQ-10 % reduced 88 Low. 92-98%. ??????

Ok that's all I got for now. I see the dr again the 12th to discuss the 2nd round of labs and see what his interpretation is... My thoughts are adrenal fatigue with obvious hypothyroid and secondary hypogonadism. I want to know what is going on, do not want to start trt just because. I train hard and eat pretty well. Been following Kiefer's carb backloading for about 6 months. Actually have made pretty good gains in weight room despite test levels. Just dead lifted 405# for 10 reps last week. Pers best. That said every workout is a battle and I don't really see changes in the mirror. Vanity a side. I want to feel good again. Anyone with some good advice, criticism fire away. At this point the more I read, and the more idiot drs I see the more confused I get.

Supps taken:

Creatine in various forms since 1998
Beta alanine for the last year
Last month
VIt d3 3000-5000iu/day
Dhea 50mg on days I work out. Usually 4x/week
Melatonin 1mg b4 bed
Zma b4 bed
VIt c 1.5-2G / day
Fish oil try for 1-2G daily
Selenium 200mg daily

Thanks for reading, please help!!!


Bump— any thoughts on my post, interpretation, advice. From anyone would be appreciated


Please read the thyroid basics sticky.

  • what is your history of use of iodized salt and vitamins that list iodine?
  • sea salt at home, if so, family is iodine deficient

Thyroid is the major problem. rT3 is not a cause. Your cortisol is low, but needed to be taken at 8AM after a normal sleep cycle. So the results may be bogus.

Suggest that you get on Armour thyroid and watch for temperature changes. You should be able to normalized temperatures by dose changes. Tell me about size of thyroid. Can you see it? Symmetrical? Lumpy?

Your fT3 range seems odd! Your fT3 seems ok, but when compared to the range, it is below mid range, so its an issue.

CoQ10 is made in the liver. Needed to enable proper Mitochondrial function in your cells. Get some Ubiquinol form of CoQ10, in health food shops, not drug store. Take 50mg ED. You may feel better. But if you take thyroid meds at same time, you will not be able to differentiate.

You could take other sleep aids, but might not be able to jump at the bell. Have you tried 3mg melatonin? Note that the mechanism of waking up is dropping melatonin levels. Melatonin levels from an oral dose drop after 4-6 hours and that wakes some people up. Suggest that you find 5mg TIME RELEASE product and try that. Drug stores or health food shops.

You may have adrenal fatigue. But no evidence of rT3 [yet]. Cortisol is low, labs could be suspect. May need repeat cortisol lab work or 24 hour four sample saliva test.

DHEA is well below youthful levels, you can try 25mg from health food shop or drug store.

Cortisol is made from progesterone and men do not have much of that. You can get some KAL progesterone cream and use small amounts. May make sleep harder for some, easier for others, experiment with AM vs PM application. You wife can use that too. Hard to find locally, try amazon.com | Wife may find that is resolves PMS, tender breasts, painful periods etc. It opposes negative effects of estrogens. She will note the benefits during the next cycle. For the current cycle, E2 has already set up the stage for problems. So it will be an experiment for both of you.

Are you required to wear fire pants 24x7 when on duty? This can have toxic effects. Are others well or showing health or premature aging? Fire retardants are the problem. The metallic compounds are toxic. Bromide compounds interfere with iodine.

You can clear bromides from your body with high dose iodine replenishment methods. When bromines are displaced, you might smell like dead fish and the bromine increase in your blood can make you feel unwell until excreted. You also get bromines from some breads. And is in sports drinks and other citrus drinks. Can be an major issue for some. Read labels for bromides, bromines, bromated vegetable oils…



KSman. Thanks for your dedication to the members of this site. To give you some peace of mind I assure you I’ve read the thyroid sticky several dozen times. I’ve been on 30 mg of thyroid armour the last 2 months. It has not changed my temps at all. My morning temps are still below 97.3.

My main concern is the continued afternoon crash and brain fog that seems to occur. I can not see my thyroid in mirror. Not sure about lumpy feel, not exactly sure what I should feel. As far as the other supps you suggested I started all of those 2 weeks ago. I am trying dhea 50mg 2 days on 1 day off, 2 days on, 2 days off. Coincides w/ workouts.

Do I need an AI while taking dhea? Worried about estrogen conversion potential.

Saw the dr 2 days ago. He is basically letting me dictate treatment direction. Honestly a little scary. Per STTM book I am considering low dose cytomel 5-15 mcg 2-3x a day and discontinuing armour thyroid. Per labs I believe I am a poor t4 to t3 converter. Do you think this is a good idea or should I up the dose of armour thyroid, like 30mg 2x a day.

He also suggested Welchol low dose to decrease LDL. Is this needed? I know it could affect thyroid med effectiveness based on timing of intake. I will also try IR as I believe me and the family are iodine deficient as my wife’s morning temps have always been low like mine. My question here is potassium iodide the same as iodine? I have 65mg potassium iodide.

If not I can order the iodine that you have suggested several times before on this site. Also dr still wants me to consider trt!!! Any thoughts? Per labs LH/FSH are very low. Borderline low TT

Fire pants we wear are 65% poly 35% cotton… So no we are not in our fire gear all the time.

Thanks for your time, very appreciated