T Nation

KSman Need Help - 23 Y/O 109 ng/dl TT


#1

-age: 23
-height: 6'0
-waist: 32
-weight:170 (and im in a bulking phase lol)
-describe body and facial hair-sparse body hair no chest hair, scraggly chin and mustashe.
-describe where you carry fat and how changed-about 15-20% bodyfat ususally, carry it on my stomach and face.
-health conditions, symptoms: perfect health, family history of diabetes heartproblems, I got a concave chest that's about it.
-Rx and OTC drugs: none
-lab results with ranges:
I did a urinalysis but I wont post that.
CHOL 175 mg/dL
HDL 46
LDL 114
TRIG 76
T4 8.4 (4.5-12.0)
Free T 2.5 Abnormal Low(9.3-26.5 ranges)
T Serum 109 Abnormal Low (348-1197 ranges)
E2 21.5 (7.6-42.6 ranges) Roche ECLIA method
Prolactin 6.5 (1.6-18.8 ranges)
FSH 2.0 (0.95-11.95 ranges)
LH 1.1 (2.0-12.0 ranges)
B12 1040 high (211-946): I take a vitamin b5 supplement

Any thing else you want to know I will post.

-describe diet: 3000 calories a day, vegtables, meats, rice, pasta, barely any junk food.
-describe training: Lift 3 times a week Judo 4 times a week
-testes aches all the time during fever (drooping).
-how have morning wood: haven't had any since my teenage years.

Just came back with blood work and showed that my TT and free T as abnormally low. The next step my doctor says is to get an MRI of my pituatary: is this nesscary? I just don't think I produce an ounce of T it's been like that since I was 14. Also my doctor is saying that I am going to need only one shot a month....? How can I convince him that I need 2-3 a week and that I can do it myself. Also he didn't know what an AI was and did not know what E2 does.

What is my next step? do I need an expensive MRI? do I try to convince him that AI and weekly shots are necessary or do I find a new doc? I am in the Kansas City Kansas area need help from KSMan bad! PM would be nice but i am a newbie so I don't think I can send PMs. please text or call me at 484-eight oh two-eight nine five four

EDIT: Here is the rest of my labs:
DIFF
SEG= 46
ALYMPH=1
BASO=1
EOS=1
LYM=40
MONO=11
PEST=Adequate
U Protien=Negative
U Specific Gravity=1.015
U URO= 1.0 E.U

GEN Health Panel w/GFR
ALB=4.7
ALK PHOS=60 (19-168)
ALT=21 (6-65)
AST=33 (5-40)
BASO ABS =0.010 (0.0-0.2)
BASO %=0.4 (0.0-2.5)
BUN =13 (9-25)
CA=9.6 (8.5-10.8)
CL=100 (101-113)
CO2=28 (19-29)
CREAT=1 (0.5-1.5)
EOS ABS=0.03 (0-0.7)
EOS%=1.2 (0-7)
GLUCOSE=94 (70-99)
HCT=44.2 (42.0-53.7)
HGB=14.6 (14.0-18.1)
IG ABS=0.01 (0-0.1)
IG%=0.4 (0.0-0.8)
K=4.1 (3.5-5.3)
LYMPH ABS=0.93 (0.6-3.4)
LYMPH %=38.3 (10.0-50.0)
MCH-29.4 (27-31.2
MCHC=33 (31.8-35.4)
MCV=88.9 (80-100)
MONO ABS=0.310 (0-0.9)
MONO%=12.8 (0.0-12.8)
MPV=10.5 (8.5-11.8)
NA=140 (137-150)
NEUT ABS=1.15 (2.00-6.90)
NEUT%=47.3, (37.0-80.0)
PLT=155 (142-424)
RBC=4.97 (4.70-6.13)
RDW-CV=12.9 (11.6-14.8)
RDW-SD=41.3 (37.0-54.0)
TOTAL BILI=0.7 (0.2-1.2)
TOTAL Protien=7.4 (6.2-8.3)
WBC=2.4 (4.0-10.0)

HgbA1c
eAG=126
HgbA1C=6.0 (4.7-6.2)

UA
U APP=clear
U Bili=Neg
U Blood=neg
U color=yellow
U glucose= neg
U ketone= neg
U Leuk=neg
U nit= neg
uph=6.5


#2

If you go to allthingsmale.com there is a write up by one of the top trt doctors in the country telling docs how to administer trt.

Low T is a symptom of a problem. Find the root of the problem.

MRI??? Prolactin looks fine. Do you have any thyroid labs?

List everything you have.

Read the stickies and then read them again

Your doctor is an idiot


#3

My TSH is 0.81 ranges 0.32-5.00 shows as normal


#4

Have the adrenals been tested? Glucose? A1c? Insulin? C peptide?cortisol?

Liver enzymes? Ast alt?

Something isn't right here.. What kind of diabeties type 1 or type 2?

Use of steroids?? Ur shut down???


#5

Hey I tested a thousand things, everyone of the parameter is within range. I will post more tomorrow. Could it be a growth in the pituatary????


#6

are hospitals going to charge me up the ass for an MRI? Should I settle for a private imaging enter?


#7

T is very low. Your E2 looks nice, but with very low T you are very estrogen dominant.

Liver may be part of this and AST/ALT labs would be good.

Please see the following get body temps as per thyroid sticky.

Seems like you are lightly virilized and T has been low for a long time.

This is standard advice maintained here:
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_trt/please_help_me_refine_standard_advice

There is a huge amount of knowledge in the stickies. Please study these. Start with the advice for new guys sticky.
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_trt/prototype_advice_for_new_guys
There is a lot to read there, so read carefully. There are suggestions for things that are root causes of low testosterone [T]. Low T is a symptom, not a root cause itself. But low T itself is a root cause of many of the symptoms one experiences. Note that other things cause the same spectrum of symptoms, so do not have T tunnel vision. Many docs are guilty of that and they only treat the symptom [low T] and do not attempt to find the real problem. If you go to a clinic that specializes in low T, you will get T tunnel vision for sure.

Post info about yourself as suggested in the above sticky. We need labs, almost all of your labs, not just hormones. We also need the lab ranges.

We see a very high number of thyroid issues in the population of guys that show up here. So there is a strong focus on that. Most people are iodine deficient to some degree. Your history of iodine intake from iodized salt and vitamins that list iodine is important. If you become iodine deficient, the RDA [recommended daily allowance] is inadequate for recovery of iodine stores. Please see the thyroid basics sticky for more information.
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_trt/thryroid_basics
You do not want to suffer from subclinical hypothyroidism or get Rx thyroid meds to treat iodine deficiency.

If you are injecting T or contemplating that, read the protocol for injections sticky.
http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/sports_training_performance_bodybuilding_trt/trt_protocol_for_injections

There are stickies for finding a TRT doc, estradiol [E2] and lab work.

Do not place your history or treatment details in the stickies! That belongs in your thread. Keep all of your posts in your thread so we can have a clear picture of your situation and needs.

You are a long way from home. Student?


#8

thank you ksman, got MRI done will see results, hopefully it's clean but that means I there is more tests to run.

Will look into
Body temperature and iodine


#9

hey my morning temp showed up as 97.2 and my afternoon temp was 97.8 at the highest. I think I need to go on IR.


#10

Lol


#11

Your prolactin was fine and you haven't told us of any high Levels of other hormones so I don't know what they are waisting your money on an MRI.

If you have tumour but it is small (less then 1 cm )and not secreting hormones they won't anything for it anyways.

You don't know if you need IR trust me and don't jump on 50 mg of iodine cause one person says so or do anything for that matter without researching the shit out of that subject and making a informed choice on your own..

50 mg of iodine is 333 times the recommended daily

One who is genetically prone to autoimmune thyroid disorders may induce hashimotos or graves into full swing.

Check

TSh

Ft3

Ft4

Tgab

Tpo

Tsi

And rt3 <---- could cause low body temps

Mercury poisoning could also cause low body temps and thyroid disfunction

The thyroid is a very complicated gland and not to be messed with.

If thinking about Ir at a high dose ask your doctor or naturopath about it and see what they think


#12

Hey all, just an update:

-started doing IR 32mg a day body temp is not changing but I am only on day 2
No side effects. I think my thyroid could be messed up as well, but this is probably not the reason why t is so low. When I wen to get my blood work, my doctors said he would do a full thyroid panel, but he is kind of dumb so he did not do T3 ft3 or ft4.

-The MRI is showing as clear, I have nothing wrong with my pituatary.

-Which leads me to think that this might be genetic: Kallmans, klienfeldters, or marfans I do have a lot of the described characteristics of those syndromes.


#13

Hope that works out for you.. have fun if it doesnt


#14

IR may improve body temps, but it will take longer than 2 days to work.

You said you haven't had morning erections since your teenage years. Can you recall anything that happened around that time?

You are absolutely secondary hypogonadism. Research as much as you can as to the causes and see if any relate to you. It could be genetic, but it could also be a host of other things. Need more testing on the thyroid. The HPTA is an intricate web of multiple systems and if one system begins to fail others will follow suit. Thyroid is suspect here.

Doctors often neglect thyroid issues if the numbers come back within range. The same applies to adrenal function.


#15

He checked body temps one day an started IR... Not even ksman would say this is enough data to indicate low body temps... IT'S ONE DAY!!

Seriously man this is why people need to be careful when offering advice... People are so gullible and just want to feel better and will do fucking anything to feel better...

I hope you don't end up with a thyroid problem sir


#16

Hmm my body temperature is 97.5- after I work out using a mouth thermometer. The average range and std devation is 98.2+-0.7 still kinda low. still doing IR

Also I looked into Klienfelter syndrome and it seems like I have most of the characteristics:

-Height: I am 6ft and my parents/family japanese they are all small 5'4" 5'8" brother is 5'10, another brother 6'1" but does not suffer HH symptoms
-Long arms, Long legs
-clumsier-Suck at ball sports
-slower at developing motor skills, speed and strength- this is the reason why I started lifting
-small testes
-breast growth-this one I don't have
-no facial hair
-belly fat- most of my fat is stomach and no where else
-reduced muscle tone
-narrower shoulders- I acutually have a wide shoulders and wingspan
-weaker bones- My bones are really thin
-decreased libido
-low energy
-reduced sperm-not sure about this one have to get sperm analysis
-Trouble learning language- I failed out of Spanish
-Trouble using language- I went from junior high to highschool without saying a word some days
-trouble processing what they hear- have to have things repeated twice to get it
-reading difficulties-Reading bores me it didn't used to when I was a kid.
-quiet
-less assterive
-anxiety
-follower rather than leader
-less physically active ( outside of excercise that makes me stronger I dont go out camping, fishing, hunting etc...)


#17

Update, after two weeks of IR my body temp averages out at 98 in the morning I was able to raise my temp by 0.5 to 0.8 degrees thanks to IR.


#18

98 when you wake up is good. Do you notice any improvement in mental clarity?

Get your day time temperatures when you have been at rest, not when working out.


#19

Reporting a 97.9 temp after waking seems like ir has worked feeling less cold still waiting on test results, this is killing me


#20

Day time temperatures?